Brazil Ban ~ A good thing?

[Miles]

-Allowing the stingray keeping community to become more aware of the need for captive breeding.

-Inflating the prices, so only serious raykeepers will purchase. No more mass murderers in search of the ultimate trophy fish.

-Opening the flood gate of brown, Un-Identified Peruvian rays.

-Allow us to study and better understand these once ignored Peruvian Rays.

-Forcing Stingray hobbyist to become better educated in Raykeeping due to rarity values.. every ray becomes more precious.

-Seeing more Un-Identified rays circulating into the hobby, will allow us to see what the adults and breeding aspects look like in the future.. When Prior, these cheap rays were neglected, sold cheaply, and often killed. The lack of these type of rays in the past, is the reason why we don't have nearly as much information on them as the 'sought after' rays, like black rays.



The more I think about it.. in the long run, this is a good thing.

Anyone else have stuff to add?

 

[JD7.62]

-Allowing the stingray keeping community to become more aware of the need for captive breeding.

Perhaps

-Inflating the prices, so only serious raykeepers will purchase. No more mass murderers in search of the ultimate trophy fish.

Complete BS as there are plenty of good fish people that simply cant afford black ray prices and conversly there are alot of 17 year olds with part time jobs living with their parents that have no bills that can afford the rays and still not know much.

-Opening the flood gate of brown, Un-Identified Peruvian rays.

Agree

-Allow us to study and better understand these once ignored Peruvian Rays.

True

-Forcing Stingray hobbyist to become better educated in Raykeeping due to rarity values.. every ray becomes more precious.

Umm I think the people that took the rays serious before the ban are taking them just as serious after while the people that werent still may not be ban or no ban.

-Seeing more Un-Identified rays circulating into the hobby, will allow us to see what the adults and breeding aspects look like in the future.. When Prior, these cheap rays were neglected, sold cheaply, and often killed. The lack of these type of rays in the past, is the reason why we don't have nearly as much information on them as the 'sought after' rays, like black rays.

Again true but lets face it, the brown rays are cool but not nearly as nice as a black ray.


The more I think about it.. in the long run, this is a good thing.

Anyone else have stuff to add?

See above...

 

[cichlaguapote]

While no doubt I think you value the opinion/seek the opinion of people more into rays & breeding than I am. But I will bite. I think it was good and bad. You listed some good points.

The bad is the availability even for those with the $ is way down, and I don't like the idea of having fresh blood so hard to find. But it has created large captive breeding programs. Everyone who has a CB ray does nothing but rave about them so that's gotta be a good thing. And my only real big gripe with the ban is I would like to see more large scale breeding programs springing up to help keep the market in check.

I will never see inflating prices in itself as a good thing. Let's face it there are some damn good fishkeepers that just don't have a ton of $$ to put into the hobby. And I am sure the inflated price has created more buyers who simply want one because they're more elite now.

 

[Miles]

Complete BS as there are plenty of good fish people that simply cant afford black ray prices and conversly there are alot of 17 year olds with part time jobs living with their parents that have no bills that can afford the rays and still not know much.

Well.. I don't know alot of 17 year old raykeepers who will drop $1500-$3000 on a black ray.. maybe back when they were $300-600..

and I can agree that there are still some people who buy single black rays and put them in with unsuitable tankmates, because they have the money.. no intentions to breed, just want a trophy fish.. I wish those rays could be saved and put towards breeding.

but most of those who sell black rays want them to go to other prospective breeders, who have well established incomes, and can not only afford the cost of the animal, but afford the long-term maintenance required to have them reproduce and be re-circulated in the hobby..

For example, there is a guy here in town who still thinks he knows more about rays than me.. no big deal, I try not to step on toes. Afterall, I just work for a chain store.. Anyways, his Motoro died in his 125g.. He keeps talking about how he wants a Henlei. I told him about Brazil and he doesn't really believe me, and I told him it would run him atleast a grand to get Henlei.. still didn't believe me.. He said he wouldn't pay more than $300 for one, because that's what they used to cost. (Keep in mind, this guy just killed his Motoro).. then he went and did research and realized that I was correct and Henlei are crazy expensive.. now he refuses to purchase one again until the price is around $300.. GOOD. Thanks. Atleast it won't die like the Motoro!

But again, there are good raykeepers who simply don't have black rays in their budget, like me.. But if I were to consider investing into them, you would be damn sure that I would have an appropriate tank, set-up, and be prepared to breed them.. instead of throwing them in an undersized community tank and posting up a bunch of pix about how l33z0rz my collection is..

 

[JD7.62]

Well. I don't know alot of 17 year old raykeepers who will drop $1500-$3000 on a black ray.. maybe back when they were $300-600..

and I can agree that there are still some people who buy single black rays and put them in with unsuitable tankmates, because they have the money.. no intentions to breed, just want a trophy fish.. I wish those rays could be saved and put towards breeding.

but most of those who sell black rays want them to go to other prospective breeders, who have well established incomes, and can not only afford the cost of the animal, but afford the long-term maintenance required to have them reproduced and be re-circulated in the hobby..

For example, there is a guy here in town who still thinks he knows more about rays than me.. no big deal, I try not to step on toes. Afterall, I just work for a chain store.. Anyways, his Motoro died in his 125g.. He keeps talking about how he wants a Henlei. I told him about Brazil and he doesn't really believe me, and I told him it would run him atleast a grand to get Henlei.. still didn't believe me.. He said he wouldn't pay more than $300 for one, because that's what they used to cost. (Keep in mind, this guy just killed his Motoro).. then he went and did research and realized that I was correct and Henlei are crazy expensive.. now he refuses to purchase one again until the price is around $300.. GOOD. Thanks. Atleast it won't die like the Motoro!

Ok in that example it works, but have you ever lost a ray?

What about all the big breeders out there? Have htey ever lost a ray? Im willing to bet they have.

I guess if you lose a ray and even if you can afford an expensive one you shouldnt get one..

Again there are plenty of qualified fish keepers that would love the oppurtunity to own a black ray or even breed them but cant cause of the cost. Hell Im sure there are great keepers out there that CAN afford a black but just wont because the cost in their opinion is unjustified.

The ban is ONLY good IMO if it is actually helping wild populations. Otherwise there is no good. Who is to judge what you do with your own money?

 

[Miles]

The Ban is also helping wild populations..


Forgot to add that..

Yes I have lost a Ray when I was importing.. No I have never lost one when trying to keep it for personal collection.. Yes breeders have lost rays..

Sometimes ray loss in uncontrollable, but most the time it has reasoning behind it.. those willing to drop $1k on a fish, will make sure there are no 'stupid reasons' why the ray died - ie: undersized tank, unadequate filtration, unsuitable tankmates..

n00bz with money don't care and will just buy more rays when they die... Not going to happen as often if theres only a few black rays a year offered..

 

[Lode]

If you can afford a 1500+ liter tank and the energy bill that comes along with it, you can affort brazilian rays.

Thus, I agree with Miles. The amount of people who buy a ray and keep them in so called grow out tank is amazing. I always wonder if those poeople eventually upgrade. Usually you don't hear them after a while...

 

[Lode]

Also it is almost impossible to get some young wildcaught brazilian rays to eat.

For example: as far as I know, nobody has been able to raise an young wilcaught pearl (~10 cm / 4").

 

[jlnguyen74]

The Ban is also helping wild populations..


Forgot to add that..

Yes I have lost a Ray when I was importing.. No I have never lost one when trying to keep it for personal collection.. Yes breeders have lost rays..

Sometimes ray loss in uncontrollable, but most the time it has reasoning behind it.. those willing to drop $1k on a fish, will make sure there are no 'stupid reasons' why the ray died - ie: undersized tank, unadequate filtration, unsuitable tankmates..

n00bz with money don't care and will just buy more rays when they die... Not going to happen as often if theres only a few black rays a year offered..

This is NOT so true. Destroying habitat = destroying wild population. Ban = keeping them in a pot and cooking them all at the same time Unless Brazil plan to educate the people on how to save the wildlife, ban on exporting won't help.

 

[T1KARMANN]

i think the ban is a good thing

i also think people do show the rays they buy with more respect if they have to pay $2k for it look how many motoro are still dieing due to no knowlagable people still buying them because they are cheaper

when was the last time you hurd of anyone loseing a leo not as offtern as when they were $500