Brazil IBAMA Stingray Export Ban.. Update?

[jdepasqu2]

RECAP: We are debating the status of the current Brazilian Ray Export Ban and all of the contributing factors and consequences of this ban.

The only real, factual thing posted in this thread was an email and article posted by stratos, refer to post #34 & #36.

We then began discussing why this ban may have been put in place and here we are.........., debating weather it was neccessary in the first place, why it really may not be justified, and the implications it may have on the market if the ban is lifted.

Its just a debate......., all opinions are welcome....

 

[jdepasqu2]

it doesn't matter if the wild numbers are low or not they are banned and its not gonna change... I'm sure in some parts of the river they are endangered and other fish as well... do I have names Nope and I really don't care... its not my call and I can't change any part of the ban there is no solid evidence of anything... now I'm off to get another cup of coffee it is afternoon pick me up time

I thought you did care??? u want a black ray dont you? why dont you have one right now? Its just a conversation/debate no need to kill the thread dialogue..., just talkin.....

 

[jdepasqu2]

it doesn't matter if the wild numbers are low or not they are banned and its not gonna change... I'm sure in some parts of the river they are endangered and other fish as well... do I have names Nope and I really don't care... its not my call and I can't change any part of the ban there is no solid evidence of anything... now I'm off to get another cup of coffee it is afternoon pick me up time

and how do you know the ban isnt gonna change?? what are you basing this on. they are meeting to discus this soon...., then we will know....., from the sounds of the email there is a chance weather you want to believe it or not....

 

[Nic]

reason I don't have one now is I'm trying to buy a house and the extra cash would be nice for that...that's why I passed up my black rays...

 

[Nic]

it doesn't matter why they were and why not or why they shouldn't be banned they were and we can't change it this thread is pretty much beating a dead horse going arround in circles

 

[jdepasqu2]

Nic, some people like me and a few others like Stratos are just discussing the matter. There is no harm in that....., thats what this forum is for...., to discuss things and convey information. So if it doesnt interst you then no big deal, but dont make us feel like we shouldnt be discussing this....

 

[csx4236]

The information in the posts from Stratos has been around for a long time and is nothing new or something most of us have not seen before, They already met at last years cities meeting in peru if I recall and it was stated in one of the fish magazines that brazil is not going to change there ban and allow rays out of the country. They gave no time span and peru was going to continue to allow rays to continue to be exported and will reconsider a ban themselves at the next cities meetings in future. As for this next meeting you all keep talking about to allow a quota we all have been waiting for it for over 2 years and it's yet to happen, This is all just talk among a group of fish keepers who most have no real concrete information on the subject just speculation and old postings from cities. I can tell you this rays are still sold and collected inside of brazil and are just not allowed out of the country, how do I know this I speak to wholesalers all the time about the ban and I am always looking for updates. You also asked if there are any cities fish that are endangered and yes there are Aropima are one of them and they are cities regulated cause of over fishing. Of course I don't want the ban lifted I have alot of money and time invested into my business. Only time will tell

 

[Nic]

what I said was this thread is going in circles there is no more info to really add... what's there to discuss??? in your words posts 34&36 are the only solid info here...if that is the case everything else is not related to the topic....

 

[jdepasqu2]

The information in the posts from Stratos has been around for a long time and is nothing new or something that I have not seen, They already met at last years cities meeting in peru if I recall and was stated that brazil is not goint to change the ban and allow rays out of the country they gave no time span and peru was going to continue to allow rays and will reconsider a ban themselves at the next cities meetings in future. As for this next meeting you keep talking about to allow a quota we all have been waiting for it for over 2 years and it's yet to happen, This is all just talk among a group of fish keepers who most have no real concrete information on the subject just speculation and old postings from cities. I can tell you this rays are still sold in brazil and can be collected there just not allowed out of the country, how do I know this I speak to wholesalers all the time about the ban and I am always looking for updates. You also asked if there are any cities fish that are endangered and yes there are Aropima are one of them and they are cities regulated cause of over fishing.

I completely believe you Mike...., you have a lot invested and I dont think you would have done that if you didnt have good sources and info...., but it is still on the table and correct me if I am wrong..., cus im not sure but hasnt brazil done this before??

As for the endangered fish....., is this just because of over fishing for food or for the fish keeping hobby or both ??

Like I said earlier Mike I'm just talking/discussing the mater. this in no way affects my opinion of you. I really commend you and look up to you for what you are doing. It is really a worthwhile cause and I'm in no way trying to affect your business. I am a environmentalist at heart. I believe in the ethical treatment and management of all animals..., believe me. People who know me would vouch for that. That is why I have grips with this ban...., it results in a lot of illegal and in-human behaviors towards rays.

I am simply trying to understand the matter. And as it stands right now I havent found any facts that support the ban other than someone of power wants it and I cant see the justification for it..., thats all.

Mike, I was wondering if you could personally comment on some of the problems i have with the ban....., like the email conversation Stratos had (not the article), food exports, past prices, wild populations. and why you sincerly believe the ban is here to stay. Also I was wondering if you had anything to say about the possible US import ban that I have heard about Thanks.

 

[csx4236]

I completely believe you Mike...., you have a lot invested and I dont think you would have done that if you didnt have good sources and info...., but it is still on the table and correct me if I am wrong..., cus im not sure but hasnt brazil done this before??

As for the endangered fish....., is this just because of over fishing for food or for the fish keeping hobby or both ??

Like I said earlier Mike I'm just talking/discussing the mater. this in no way affects my opinion of you. I really commend you and look up to you for what you are doing. It is really a worthwhile cause and I'm in no way trying to affect your business. I am a environmentalist at heart. I believe in the ethical treatment and management of all animals..., believe me. People who know me would vouch for that. That is why I have grips with this ban...., it results in a lot of illegal and in-human behaviors towards rays.

I am simply trying to understand the matter. And as it stands right now I havent found any facts that support the ban other than someone of power wants it and I cant see the justification for it..., thats all.

Mike, I was wondering if you could personally comment on some of the problems i have with the ban....., like the email conversation Stratos had (not the article), food exports, past prices, wild populations. and why you sincerly believe the ban is here to stay. Also I was wondering if you had anything to say about the possible US import ban that I have heard about Thanks.

What I would like to see is some evidence to support this supposed food exports of sting rays. Who eats black rays outside of the people in Brazil? I have yet to see any evidence of black rays being fished or exported to other countries as a food source. Please if anyone has any evidence of this I would love to see it. When people talk about rays being fished for food I am pretty sure they are talking about ocean rays or salt water rays and not black rays in particular. I have even asked some of my wholesalers and they don't know of any black rays being collected or sold as food, except for local native populations in Brazil. Aropima were overfished and placed under cities rugulations. As for US ban this is something I have done alot of research on cause of the nature of my business and something like this could effect my operation. I have spoken to many Fish & Wildlife reps about this and all have given the same responce there is no ban for freshwater stingrays from SA in the works or currently being discussed within the states. They can't tell me if there will be a ban in the future but to quote one officer exactly ( Take a look at the ways things are going now and it's only a matter of time before all tropical fish are banned from import ) kinda scary. I just think Brazil is trying to save as many species as it can from being overfished before they have enough research done to show wild populations, Same with bass they are all banned as well many species have recently been discovered and no one knows for sure what the poulations are. Just seems like they figured lets ban everything before it's to late. But who really knows