Brazil IBAMA Stingray Export Ban.. Update?

[csx4236]

ITS NOT LIKE THESE RAYS ARE ENDANGERED......, WHY ARE YOU SO CONCERNED ABOUT LEAVING THEM IN THE WILD...??

ITS BETTER THAN THEM BEING KILLED FOR FOOD..... AT LEAST THEY WILL BECOME LOVED AND NURTURED PETS.

ALL TYPES OF ANIMALS ARE TAKEN FROM THE WILD..., USUALLY USED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ....., ANIMALS THAT YOU AND I EAT......., WHICH IS FINE, BUT THE ONLY TIME THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE IS WHEN THESE ANIMALS ARE ENDANGERED OR EVEN CLOSE TO ENDANGERED. IN FACT THERE ARE SOME REPORTS OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CERTAIN RAY SPECIES.

WE CANT HAVE A MARKET FULL OF RAYS FORM THE SAME PARENTS.... THAT IN ITSELF IS WORSE FOR THE HOBBY...... JUST LOOK AT DOG BREEDING AT ITS PRESENT FORM......, THERE ARE BASICALLY NO PURE BREDS THAT DO NOT HAVE SOME TYPE OF GENETIC HEALTH PROBLEM.
I DONT WANT THIS TO BE THE FATE OF THE FRESHWATER STINGRAY.
YOU THINK ITS HARD TO KEEP RAYS NOW....., HOW BOUT WHEN THEY HAVE ALL TYPES OF GENETIC DISESASES.

I AM ALL FOR CONSERVATION..., BELEIVE ME I AM VERY MUCH AN ENVIRONMENTALIST........, BUT THERE IS NO REASON TO NOT EXPORT RAYS FROM BRAZIL ESPECIALLY WHEN OTHER RAYS ARE STILL BEING EXPORTED FORM OTHER COUNRTIES. ALLS THIS DOES IS JUST PUT MORE PRESSURE ON THE OTHER SPECIES OF RAYS.

CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE SO AGAINST THIS IDEA....??

I am under the impression that the bans were put into effect to stop the illegal rays from leaving the country. If there was a quota of 40,000 rays allowed to leave brazil they figured there were more like 70,000 being exported and there wasn't enough research done to prove the actual numbers of animals left in the wild. From what I have seen the ban has been a good thing for rays now that there prices are very high only serious ray keepers are purchasing rays and are prepared to keep them alive, Before this how many hundreds of rays did guys like Dave and John rare sell to people that are now alive and healthy? Not even 5-10% and those numbers are probably high. As for genetic defects i dont see that being a problem there are many breeders in asian and europe selling rays at this time and it's not hard for breeders to purchase new blood lines at all. Just my opinion

 

[T1KARMANN]

I am under the impression that the bans were put into effect to stop the illegal rays from leaving the country. If there was a quota of 40,000 rays allowed to leave brazil they figured there were more like 70,000 being exported and there wasn't enough research done to prove the actual numbers of animals left in the wild. From what I have seen the ban has been a good thing for rays now that there prices are very high only serious ray keepers are purchasing rays and are prepared to keep them alive, Before this how many hundreds of rays did guys like Dave and John rare sell to people that are now alive and healthy? Not even 5-10% and those numbers are probably high. As for genetic defects i dont see that being a problem there are many breeders in asian and europe selling rays at this time and it's not hard for breeders to purchase new blood lines at all. Just my opinion

good poit at this time i dont think their is a problem with the gene pool
i have just get 3 p14 pups to re-build my breeding plans all from diffrent blood lines

 

[jdepasqu2]

I am under the impression that the bans were put into effect to stop the illegal rays from leaving the country. If there was a quota of 40,000 rays allowed to leave brazil they figured there were more like 70,000 being exported and there wasn't enough research done to prove the actual numbers of animals left in the wild. From what I have seen the ban has been a good thing for rays now that there prices are very high only serious ray keepers are purchasing rays and are prepared to keep them alive, Before this how many hundreds of rays did guys like Dave and John rare sell to people that are now alive and healthy? Not even 5-10% and those numbers are probably high. As for genetic defects i dont see that being a problem there are many breeders in asian and europe selling rays at this time and it's not hard for breeders to purchase new blood lines at all. Just my opinion

good poit at this time i dont think their is a problem with the gene pool
i have just get 3 p14 pups to re-build my breeding plans all from diffrent blood lines



I do like the point that MOST people do take their ray breeding much more serious now. That is good. But that is another responsiblity issue that isnt completley a result of market prices....., but really forums like this. Everybody should take great care of their rays no mater what the price. its like when Chris Rock makes fun of people who brag about taking care of their kids......, No sh_t......,your supposta - U DUNB SOB_.

Yes there are rays available NOW for new breeding....., but wait a little....., if this ban keeps up there will be less and less.... to the point that there will inbreeding taking place weather intentionally or unintentionally. And Yes Dave did agree with this stance when this topic was discussed a little back in a different thread. New wild blood is needed to insure the breeding stock stays healthy and pure....., free of problems. This proble happens to all types of domesticated animals....., even ones with way,way more specimens in the gene pool.

All's I'm saying is that the ban can't go for ever......, and that if it does, all's it will result in is a large movement of illegal rays for Brazil..., which will mean more dead and un healthy rays that make it to the north and east. A more painfull and cruel death than any other..... if these astronomical prices keep up there will definitley be a rise in illegal rays being shipped...., just like the rare turtle being sold in the buy/sell thread. -my 2 cents-

 

[Itaituba2003]

This one of the reasons why we chip all our animals before we sell them. We scan every ray we buy try to keep the gene pool strong and healthy. Only the work on the data base is hudge. But I think prices will stabalize next year, they must beceause a lot of people can't even buy their own rays back if they wanted to.
Regards
Frank

 

[Itaituba2003]

I don;t have any info on any new quotas but I do know that many black rays ( and other exotics) are being sold/smuggled into asia and europe, wholesale around $1k or more plus s&h, mortalities etc. Sad but not new, and often these rays are purchased by otherwise reputable people

I hope not David and I have not heard about it in Europe. But I know you always have good info.
Regards
Frank

 

[jdepasqu2]

yes it it very sad....., unethical , and well you know...., it just sucks..

 

[T1KARMANN]

i have seen more pearls and p14 for sale since the ban was brought in all of them captive bred this must be a good thing

i truthfully thing this ban is a good thing

all of the captive bred rays i have seen are 10x stronger than wild caught from the day you put them in your tank

people think if the ban is lifted they can get cheap rays again if you think the prices are going to go back to what they used to be dream on

 

[zix]

what i dont get from IBAMA is they dont alowed live rays to go out of the country but it can go dead in japonese fishing boats by thousends and locals can kill and trow back to the river because it have venom, so they get few cents of the fishing boats insted of some dollars on every live that goes out.
the trouble is not getting rays out of Brazil because is very easy to bribe local guys from IBAMA , but is hard to get true Europe customes like must be in US

 

[csx4236]

I know of a german wholesaler who in the last year was caught with 100 black rays being imported from brazil, I have heard from my sources that there almost impossible to get out at this point and brazil is really trying to put a stop to it, but you only need one bad inspector. I agree the ban has only done good for the rays, Yes the prices are crazy but they will only drop as the rays become more and more available. I really still dont see how there could be any genetic problems as time continues more rays will be available so new blood lines should always be available. And like T1 said prices are never going to be the same as they were 3 years ago.

 

[davo]

You see a world wide movement on a ban for all wild caught animals. In europe you can't sell wild caught parrots birds reptiles and you name it. You can't even keep them. As a matter effect if the birds don't have a ring on their paw they are classified as wild caught and confiscated. This is a thing which goes to all the animal trade. The things I heard about rays ( and I have veru good contacts with Cites and IFO people) is that their proberly will be a quotta ( good English ??)for rays and then only for the common ones. Motoro,hystrix and so on. All other rays the black ones and pearls will stay banned ( pearls beceause their is no sientific discription of the species).
So for the time being it looks like we have to do it with our breeded species, but in the future all breeders need some fresh blood sometimes.
Regards
Frank

We can keep wild caught reptiles still...
Looks like we are still looking for you to keep up the captive breeding programme then! And i'm all for it!