Brazil IBAMA Stingray Export Ban.. Update?

[jdepasqu2]

MIKE, HOW ARE NEW RAYS GOING TO BE AVAILABLE IF THERE IS STILL A BAN?

GENETIC PROBLEMS HAPPEN WITH ALL DOMESTICATED ANIMALS....., PLEASE TELL ME ONE THAT DOESNT HAVE THIS PROBLEM....

I GREATLY RESPECT AND APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH YOUR BREEDING PROGRAM......, EVERYBODY DOES. BUT I DONT SEE HOW YOU ARE GOING TO legally ACQUIRE WILD RAYS FOR INTRODUCING NEW BLOOD....., CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU WILL DO THIS?

ALLS THAT I HAVE SEEN THIS BAN DO IS CREATE RIDICULIOUS PRICES AND THE ILLEGAL SMUGGLING OF RAYS......

 

[jdepasqu2]

AND WHY CANT PRICES BE WHERE THEY USE TO BE???

THE ONLY THING KEEPING THIS FROM HAPPENING IS THIS POLITICALLY INSPIRED BAN....

LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER..... RAYS ARE STILL BEING EXPORTED DEAD IN MUCH LARGER NUMBERS COMPARED TO LIVE A FEW YEARS AGO....

NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE WHAT-SO-EVER.........

 

[T1KARMANN]

AND WHY CANT PRICES BE WHERE THEY USE TO BE???

THE ONLY THING KEEPING THIS FROM HAPPENING IS THIS POLITICALLY INSPIRED BAN....

LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER..... RAYS ARE STILL BEING EXPORTED DEAD IN MUCH LARGER NUMBERS COMPARED TO LIVE A FEW YEARS AGO....

NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE WHAT-SO-EVER.........

you seam to have a problem with your caps lock ITS ON ALL THE TIME

 

[jdepasqu2]

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DISCUSSION AT HAND........

 

[jdepasqu2]

Why derail a thread just to make such an childish comment....

 

[MonsterFishKeeper82]

Oh he hit the caps lock button again!

ITS OFF!! : ]

 

[jdepasqu2]

MIKE, HOW ARE NEW RAYS GOING TO BE AVAILABLE IF THERE IS STILL A BAN?

GENETIC PROBLEMS HAPPEN WITH ALL DOMESTICATED ANIMALS....., PLEASE TELL ME ONE THAT DOESNT HAVE THIS PROBLEM....

I GREATLY RESPECT AND APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH YOUR BREEDING PROGRAM......, EVERYBODY DOES. BUT I DONT SEE HOW YOU ARE GOING TO legally ACQUIRE WILD RAYS FOR INTRODUCING NEW BLOOD....., CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU WILL DO THIS?

ALLS THAT I HAVE SEEN THIS BAN DO IS CREATE RIDICULIOUS PRICES AND THE ILLEGAL SMUGGLING OF RAYS......

AND WHY CANT PRICES BE WHERE THEY USE TO BE???

THE ONLY THING KEEPING THIS FROM HAPPENING IS THIS POLITICALLY INSPIRED BAN....

LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER..... RAYS ARE STILL BEING EXPORTED DEAD IN MUCH LARGER NUMBERS COMPARED TO LIVE A FEW YEARS AGO....

NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE WHAT-SO-EVER.........



^ NOW BACK TO THE DISCUSSION...... DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING WORTHWHILE TO ADD TO THIS THREAD THAT ACTUALLY PERTAINS TO THE TOPIC.......^

 

[Zoodiver]

I'm gonna chime in a little on this...

There are enough captive rays not NOT worry about bloodline issues for a long time. There is a new studbook keeper for the AZA, so the zoo world in the US will be better managed now.

Animals that are rare will always draw a higher price tag. I'll use leopoldi as an example: I used to breed them all the time and had my own program going in house with no real need to introduce outside DNA just due purely to the size of my group. Suddenly, as of late, I can't even get animals from places I've given my old pups to. Everyone started sitting on their "prize" animals and are being very tight with them as the new breeding program starts to take effect for us.

Then you have the other side: rays that are looked at as 'common' like motoro. AI know a few places that can't keep up with there motoro populations and are constantly struggling to house males/females apart so they won't breed anymore.

Right now I'm only sitting on three species: tiger, otorongo and motoro. I'm short a male tiger, but will have one soon. I also think I have a line on an unreated pair of leos coming in. I hope to make the best use of the facility we have to work with in regards to freshwater ray breeding. I wish those places that have the resources would fully use them.

 

[jdepasqu2]

It's quite simply and easy understand. I am talking mostly about buying new blood lines from existing breeders. There are many ray breeders in europe and asia currently breeding rays (atleast 20 that i know of), If breeders buy new blood lines from these existing breeders they can keep the blood lines open. Also it is possible to get wild rays legaly from barazil with proper permission. Breeders can request permits from the brazil goverment to breed rays and for scientific research and if granted legaly acquire rays with these proper permits. I know of a few breeders and scientists who are in the middle of doing this as we speak. As for smuggling of rays it still happens and for the first 2 years of the ban was very bad but at this point brazil has cracked down so hard that it is almost stopped, In the USA you can't import any black rays from brazil cause our goveremnt enforces brazils laws. But there will always be people who try. There are alot less rays going out of brazil now then there ever were. Also it's true that prices are not going to come down if the ban was lifted and theres a few reasons why if brazil doese open the border they are going to have very small and strict quota for black rays if any, not enough will be released to drop the prices sorry it's true.

I did not know that you can still import rays form Brazil.....

I was wondering how you know that Brazil wont allow rays to be exported at the rate they once were. Is this just speculation or do you have a good source? I find it very screwed up that they are still allowed to be exported DEAD....for food....

I still am not that sure that there are enough rays in the hobby to support these types of breeding programs....., I mean I hope your right and I trust your statements but it justs seems like other animals that are breed in captivity have a way more populated gene pool than what us rays keepers have right now.... I just feel that it will only be a matter of time before things get tighter than they are now... What do you think..?

Mike how many black rays would you say are in captivity right now?

I'm glad that Brazil has basically stopped the illegal export of black rays....., but at the same time i fully believe the whole system is bogus and political.... I find it hard to believe that they have the best interest of the black ray in mind... and what is your take on this situation?? do you find this process fishy?

whatever they case I'm glad we have you to help breed rays for us in the states.... Because if we leave it to Brazil to monitor this....., I dont think it will turn out that well..... keep up the good work Mike...... and get those new blood lines....

 

[stratos]

I would think it is in the interest of the Brazillians to begin breeding their black rays themselves for export. The captive Asian arowana breeding programs begun in SEAsia decades ago have brought economic advantage to many as well as ensured the species' survival. I would think it provides the Brazilians the perfect model to follow.

Does anyone know whether captive breeding has started in Brazil? Does anyone know whether the black rays are available for sale inside Brazil for their own domestic aquarium stores?