I would definately call a vet. It is possible that they will know what to do. If not, clove oil is a very good way to euthanize a fish. We use that when we euthanize fish at the aquarium i work at.
Broken Jaw Silver
- Thread starter OSH
- Start date
Thanks a ton guys, I'll call the lfs in my area for transmore tomorrow. I've never noticed it in the fish meds section, so I'll most likely be going with clove oil. I happen to have a bottle of 100% clove oil here at the house already, it makes a dandy sore tooth remedy.
I'm concerned about using salt in that aqaruium. It also houses multiple species of pleco, and some of them counter indicate for salt. Removing him to salt dose would be just as stressfull as medical repair is going to be, so for tonight, he stays in place and hopefully does'nt bash himself further.
Pins. After looking his injury over carefully, it's broken in two places, with some erupted tissue between one of the gaps. If I can properly sedate him, I don't think I'll try surgical pins. I think one small saftey pin could possibly thread both fragments back together with the main lower jaw. Thank goodness it's the tip of the jaw and will not need any sort of splint like the base would. I doubt he'll eat while he's healing, particularly with a saftey pin riding on his chin, but he's large, and healthy up untill now, so a week should'nt harm him so long as he resumes feeding after the pin is removed. I don't have a qt tank that can hold him, or conversely his tankmates. So he'll have to remain in the community for the duration. I'll do water changes and continue with melafix and anti fungals to prevent infection.
Here's the game plan. Tomorrow I'll get a 10 gallon rubber maid container, and fill it with tank water. I'll be able to measure the water cup by cup that way if I need to use clove oil, or I'll know exactly how much transmore to use if I can find it. I'll medicate the water, then try to net the arrow as gently as possible. Once I've got him netted, I'll hand lift him out to transfer him to the medicated container. If he does'nt roll over in four minutes, it's not working and I'll return him to the tank. If he rolls, I'll carefully open his mouth to get a better working area on his jaw, and place a pencil at the lower joint to hold it open slightly. Then I'll set the fragments back in place, and pin them. Finally, I'll trim away the erupted tissue, and return him to the main tank. If he's already recovering, I'll remove the pencil and release him. If he's still sedated, I'll keep the pencil in place to hold his mouth open, and use a powerhead to push water through his gills. Distance from mouth to powerhead will be determined when I see the gills flutter.
Did I miss a step? Not think out something? Anyone want to give me odds?
He's settled down quite a bit since I got home, I think he'd just broken it. He's still hiding behind a pleco when I come over to inspect him, but he's moving a lot easier.
I'm concerned about using salt in that aqaruium. It also houses multiple species of pleco, and some of them counter indicate for salt. Removing him to salt dose would be just as stressfull as medical repair is going to be, so for tonight, he stays in place and hopefully does'nt bash himself further.
Pins. After looking his injury over carefully, it's broken in two places, with some erupted tissue between one of the gaps. If I can properly sedate him, I don't think I'll try surgical pins. I think one small saftey pin could possibly thread both fragments back together with the main lower jaw. Thank goodness it's the tip of the jaw and will not need any sort of splint like the base would. I doubt he'll eat while he's healing, particularly with a saftey pin riding on his chin, but he's large, and healthy up untill now, so a week should'nt harm him so long as he resumes feeding after the pin is removed. I don't have a qt tank that can hold him, or conversely his tankmates. So he'll have to remain in the community for the duration. I'll do water changes and continue with melafix and anti fungals to prevent infection.
Here's the game plan. Tomorrow I'll get a 10 gallon rubber maid container, and fill it with tank water. I'll be able to measure the water cup by cup that way if I need to use clove oil, or I'll know exactly how much transmore to use if I can find it. I'll medicate the water, then try to net the arrow as gently as possible. Once I've got him netted, I'll hand lift him out to transfer him to the medicated container. If he does'nt roll over in four minutes, it's not working and I'll return him to the tank. If he rolls, I'll carefully open his mouth to get a better working area on his jaw, and place a pencil at the lower joint to hold it open slightly. Then I'll set the fragments back in place, and pin them. Finally, I'll trim away the erupted tissue, and return him to the main tank. If he's already recovering, I'll remove the pencil and release him. If he's still sedated, I'll keep the pencil in place to hold his mouth open, and use a powerhead to push water through his gills. Distance from mouth to powerhead will be determined when I see the gills flutter.
Did I miss a step? Not think out something? Anyone want to give me odds?
He's settled down quite a bit since I got home, I think he'd just broken it. He's still hiding behind a pleco when I come over to inspect him, but he's moving a lot easier.
So sorry this happened. Maybe you could make a food for him using ground up fish and shrimp and gelatin until his jaw heals if it can.
Do you have medical training..because you seem very comfortable about taking this surgery on... Is he able to move his jaw at all, has he opened his mouth.. I admire your ambition to do all this..i am afraid i would have to take the wait and see position and see if he was able to eat in the next week or so.. I hope all works out for this fellow.... we are all rooting for him.
Is the jaw misaligned now? If not, don't mess with it at all. Hold off on feeding him for about a week. The jaw will heal on it's own. If it is out of place, you'll have to set it. However I really wouldn't use a safety pin. That will only cause more problems. I've set several aro jaws in the past. Most of the time, they simply pop back into place, but they take time to heal.
Knocking down a large fish like this is touchy, especailly if you and the fish are new to it. If you need help getting it down, setting it and bringing it back out, PM me. As for your 'plan' - how are you removing him from the tank? You'll most likely do more damage trying to chase it down if you are planning on removing him unsedated.
Knocking down a large fish like this is touchy, especailly if you and the fish are new to it. If you need help getting it down, setting it and bringing it back out, PM me. As for your 'plan' - how are you removing him from the tank? You'll most likely do more damage trying to chase it down if you are planning on removing him unsedated.
Things never quite work the way you intend. Let's start with the arrow. He's still swimming, still fragmented at the jaw tip, and it looks like he's starting a small tuft of fungus in the erupted tissue. I've already treated the water for it, and I'm dosing melafix again as it seems to sooth him.
On the day I was supposed to work on him, my roomate's mother, my own mother both wound up in hospitals. Mine's still in critical care on oxygen. I just got back from a trip to the emergency room myself for similar problem. Just one of those chest colds that get out of hand. I turned grey and collapsed at work. So I did'nt get to work on him as I'd intended.
His jaw is still fragmented, but it looks like one of the fragments is almost back in place. It does not need to be set, and he worked it a little when I came up to the tank. He's not taking food, but it's not due to a mechanical failure on the part of his jaw. I'm thinking it's becaus his mouth still hurts, and he's still stressed. After reading the further replies, I think I'll try to let him heal on his own, and if he's deformed, it'll be ok if he''s comfortable and eating again. I was most concerned about him rubbing or hitting the break and causing it to split his jaw the long way, and I don't think that's as likely now.
In answer to some of the questions posted, I was going to set a box net under his swimming level and moving him over it to trap him. After I had him confined to the box net, I'd lift him out with one hand under his head controlling it, and one at the pivot point of his body just past the midline. That's how they did it in the video I saw of harvesting arrow fry from an adult male. Control the fish without hurting it.
I have had some medical training and some experience in emergency procedure. I've set bone, stopped a lung from collapsing with plastic wrap and even pulled one guy off a steering wheel when his car crash caught fire. No, I'm not an EMS or first responder, I'm just always in the wrong place at the wrong time. I also did quite a bit of biology in school including some animal surgery. I get a lot of my confidence in sedating a large fish from my mother, a practicing anestist of 40 years. (she had no idea what to do for a fish, but the basics still apply, level of anestisia, keeping resperation up, etc)
I hope he recovers. I'm certainly going to give him as much support as I can. I'm still not going to try getting a picture of his injury yet, as he's very shy at the best of times, but I'll put in a shot I got of him in his heyday. His name is Gehena. He's my arrow.
OSH
On the day I was supposed to work on him, my roomate's mother, my own mother both wound up in hospitals. Mine's still in critical care on oxygen. I just got back from a trip to the emergency room myself for similar problem. Just one of those chest colds that get out of hand. I turned grey and collapsed at work. So I did'nt get to work on him as I'd intended.
His jaw is still fragmented, but it looks like one of the fragments is almost back in place. It does not need to be set, and he worked it a little when I came up to the tank. He's not taking food, but it's not due to a mechanical failure on the part of his jaw. I'm thinking it's becaus his mouth still hurts, and he's still stressed. After reading the further replies, I think I'll try to let him heal on his own, and if he's deformed, it'll be ok if he''s comfortable and eating again. I was most concerned about him rubbing or hitting the break and causing it to split his jaw the long way, and I don't think that's as likely now.
In answer to some of the questions posted, I was going to set a box net under his swimming level and moving him over it to trap him. After I had him confined to the box net, I'd lift him out with one hand under his head controlling it, and one at the pivot point of his body just past the midline. That's how they did it in the video I saw of harvesting arrow fry from an adult male. Control the fish without hurting it.
I have had some medical training and some experience in emergency procedure. I've set bone, stopped a lung from collapsing with plastic wrap and even pulled one guy off a steering wheel when his car crash caught fire. No, I'm not an EMS or first responder, I'm just always in the wrong place at the wrong time. I also did quite a bit of biology in school including some animal surgery. I get a lot of my confidence in sedating a large fish from my mother, a practicing anestist of 40 years. (she had no idea what to do for a fish, but the basics still apply, level of anestisia, keeping resperation up, etc)
I hope he recovers. I'm certainly going to give him as much support as I can. I'm still not going to try getting a picture of his injury yet, as he's very shy at the best of times, but I'll put in a shot I got of him in his heyday. His name is Gehena. He's my arrow.
OSH
First i just wanted to say that i hope your Mom is feeling better soon and also you get better every day..you sure have your hands full suddenly.. and please let us know about your arow in the next week or so.. hoping for a full recovery and cannot wait until he is eating again.. so we need to hear it when the great day comes..best of luck to you..by the way he is gorgeous healthy looking Arow,.
