buffering soft water, what to use?

[Morledzep]

big, ya know.. i spent the better part of a day looking for that info.. i had a tank that had seriously low PH and serious ammonia spikes and a bad smell. The filters were doing their thing, the water tests for nitrite and nitrates showed that the bio-filtration was working.. but we couldn't stop the smell and the ammonia spiking and then going down for no apparent reason.

and, as usual, the info comes to me right after i've found a different way to solve my problem.. we used crushed coral..

I'm a BIG fan of crushed coral, i'll never set up another tank without it...

 

[Nick660]

I've spent a lot of time looking into this!

Check out:-
http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/FishInfo.html#WaterQuality

Scroll down to the section labelled "pH, KH, GH and biofiltration".
I found some of the linked articles very interesting and informative on the subject.

A useful calculator if you go the bicarb route is:-
http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp

Good luck!

 

[myles]

awesome info thnak you!

 

[Nick660]

Worth noting that if you do add bicarbonate of soda make sure you fully dissolve it in a small amount of water before adding it to your tank or water change barrel and go cautiously!

Chompers makes a good point in post#18 of the following thread

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49300&page=2

I am really rusty with my Chemistry, but I do know Sodium Bicarbonate will raise both the pH and Alkalinity (what ever _H that is; the pH buffer). The weird thing about Sodium Bicarbonate is that it can raise the pH a lot while only raising the Alkalinity a little, OR it can do the opposite in raising the Alkalinity a lot and the pH a little. Or it can give you anything in between. What determines the amount of which it raises depends on the pH of the water (yes it all sound nuts but bear with me). If you add your dose all at once to a small volume of water, it will raise the pH to 8.4 and then raise the alkalinity with the remaining chemical. If you add it in small doses it will favor changing the pH more than the Alkalinity.

I think temperature may play a part in it too; it is an endothermic reaction but that is all I can recall. Also, Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) will raise the pH much more than the Alkalinity if that is ever the desired result.

When using Sodium Bicarbonate, always mix your dose with an amount of water until dissolved. Then add only a part of that mixture to the tank (in very small doses or drip it in as to not make a sudden change). Test the results before adding the full dosage to make sure the pH and Alkalinity are heading in the right direction and one is not acting unexpectedly. If all is ok, continue with the treatment or adjust accordingly.

Water chemistry is great fun

 

[Greenaveli]

I had 6.0 about a month ago. Oddball reccomended the coral and thats what I used. My tank is now maintaining at 7.0. I used a lil at a time in the sump and got what I wanted. I am a lil skiddish when it comes to using chemicals. I like all natural.

 

[Greenaveli]

i had a tank that had seriously low PH and serious ammonia spikes and a bad smell. The filters were doing their thing, the water tests for nitrite and nitrates showed that the bio-filtration was working.

Wierd! Usually in low ph the ammonia stays lower. Its is said when raising the ph pay attention to the ammonia because its higher at higher ph levels.

 

[Nick660]

Wierd! Usually in low ph the ammonia stays lower. Its is said when raising the ph pay attention to the ammonia because its higher at higher ph levels.

I believe ammonia levels are no higher at higher pH, it's just that it becomes more toxic.

 

[Nick660]

I had 6.0 about a month ago. Oddball reccomended the coral and thats what I used. My tank is now maintaining at 7.0. I used a lil at a time in the sump and got what I wanted. I am a lil skiddish when it comes to using chemicals. I like all natural.

Greenaveli.....You might find this article interesting if you prefer to use natural sources in your sump
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=111
Particularly this part

"Where do Carbonates come from? "
Well, Baking Soda is nothing but Sodium Bicarbonate. When Baking Soda hits the water, it splits off the Sodium, and the carbonate is left. Addition of Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) results in a higher Carbonate Alkalinity but does nothing to Hardness. Baking Soda is rapidly exhausted but works pretty well.
Oyster Shell is nothing but Calcium Carbonate and Magnesium Carbonate. When the Oyster shell dissolves due to the presence of acid water, it liberates Calcium, Magnesium, and Carbonates. These mineral liberations increase the hardness of the water (contributing nothing to Buffering capacity) and the Carbonates increase the Alkalinity. Thus, the pH is stabilized.
Crushed Coral is Calcium Carbonate and Magnesium Carbonate but also contains a central structural molecule of Calcium Hydroxy-appetite. (I didn't name the stuff.) The significance of this is that when the crushed coral dissolves, it leaves behind the insoluble Calcium Hydroxy-appetite which is not a contributor to pH stability. While crushed oyster shell dissolves and vanishes, letting you know when to add more, the crushed coral remains, looking good but doing nothing.

I'm planning on using the crushed oyster shells in my Koi pond when i've decided the best way of putting them in there.

 

[PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn]

the use of coral/dolomite/oyster shell (etc) increases both the Kh and Gh. which might be detrimental, if that isnt what your attempting to do. (ie just keep pH stable, rather than raise Total hardness)

if dosed at 1ml/10l(1tsp/10g (us)) sodium bicarbonate will raise the Kh by 110ppm or aprox 6Kh .

also, in water with lower pH values (ie less than 7.4) then the ammonia will become ammonium, which is less toxic than ammonia, however neither should be detectable.

i found this as an explanation for the ammonia thing

Ammonia is capable of ionization below pH 7.4 and so in its ionized state is less toxic to fish.
Above pH 8.0 most ammonia is NOT ionized, and so becomes more toxic. Care should be taken not to increase the pH of a system if ammonia is present but the need to drop the pH or restrict oxygenation to tanks of fish to keep pH down is an overrated aberration in the literature.
Treatment: Water changes and management of the pH near neutral will go a long way to cutting losses from Ammonias, ancillary, less useful modes of Ammonia management include the use of the various water conditioners* that bind ammonia, and the application of rechargeable Zeolites to the system filter. I am still going to tell you that time and waterchanges are the two mainstays, however.

 

[bigspizz]

the use of coral/dolomite/oyster shell (etc) increases both the Kh and Gh. which might be detrimental, if that isnt what your attempting to do. (ie just keep pH stable, rather than raise Total hardness)

if dosed at 1ml/10l(1tsp/10g (us)) sodium bicarbonate will raise the Kh by 110ppm or aprox 6Kh .

also, in water with lower pH values (ie less than 7.4) then the ammonia will become ammonium, which is less toxic than ammonia, however neither should be detectable.

i found this as an explanation for the ammonia thing

So what is your recommendation?