Building stands for multiple tanks???

[jjohnwm]

Woah! Full stop! Without reading back through, I could have sworn at some point you stated that you had left out some vertical supports in one of your previous drawings; I assumed you meant a couple of supports for the top level, placed between the tanks on the middle level.

Are you seriously planning on building a 12 foot span out of unsupported 2x4's, on which you plan to slap three 60-gallon tanks? Wow. And I don't even know what to say about "sagulator"...

You are calculating everything to the last hairbreadth and fraction of an ounce, so let's mention that the load on the top shelf will be more than you think. I assume that 1440 was achieved by multiplying 3 x 60 x 8 pounds? This ignores the weight of substrate, rocks, or anything other than water within those tanks, not to mention the weight of the tanks themselves. I'd bet that will be at least a couple hundred extra pounds...probably not a dealbreaker, but if you are going to be precise...then be precise.

I'm also a bit leery of the "salgulator" when it questions the nature of the load: uniform or centre. If you had one long 180gallon tank on top, that would certainly be a uniform load. But do three separate 60gallon tanks qualify as one? I don't know; I do know that this whole thing makes me uncomfortable, and it's not even going into my house!

So let's say you build that unsupported 12 foot span, stick those tanks up top, and then fill only the centre one. Frankly, I wouldn't even do that, but just for gits'n'shiggles why don't you plug in a centre load of, say, 550 pounds (very likely for a single filled 60) and see what the ol' sagulator tells you. How much sag will occur? Will it be enough for the top edges of the tanks begin making contact with each other? How much lateral pressure might they apply to each other if they do?

Incidentally, my suggestion that you attach this structure to the wall was NOT intended to reinforce it in any way, but merely to stabilize the entire hopefully-rigid thing against tipping. Depending upon how well it is attached and how good the wall structure itself is, doing so might very well add rigidity to the rear horizontal support, but won't do anything for the front. If that occurs, then the front might sag while the rear does not, and now you have the center top tank leaning forwards more or less uniformly, while the two end tanks are not supported at all in the front inside corners.

I don't mean to sound negative; you asked for opinions, so I am expressing mine: You definitely should have vertical supports between the middle tanks, holding up the top level. You definitely should have some diagonal, both at the ends and on the backside, to increase rigidity.

And...it sounds as though this thing is being built so tight that all these tanks will barely be able to slide into it, with no gaps at all? What happens a few years down the road, when one of them develops a leak or breaks a glass panel, or for any other reason requires replacement...and you find that the tanks available to you then are a quarter-inch longer, or wider, or whatever? I really think you need to build in some "jiggle room" to allow for unforeseen surprises like that.

Edited to add: Okay, add Milingu to the (long) list of people who are more concise and type faster than I do...

 

[Hybridfish7]

Woah! Full stop! Without reading back through, I could have sworn at some point you stated that you had left out some vertical supports in one of your previous drawings; I assumed you meant a couple of supports for the top level, placed between the tanks on the middle level.

Are you seriously planning on building a 12 foot span out of unsupported 2x4's, on which you plan to slap three 60-gallon tanks? Wow. And I don't even know what to say about "sagulator"...

You are calculating everything to the last hairbreadth and fraction of an ounce, so let's mention that the load on the top shelf will be more than you think. I assume that 1440 was achieved by multiplying 3 x 60 x 8 pounds? This ignores the weight of substrate, rocks, or anything other than water within those tanks, not to mention the weight of the tanks themselves. I'd bet that will be at least a couple hundred extra pounds...probably not a dealbreaker, but if you are going to be precise...then be precise.

I'm also a bit leery of the "salgulator" when it questions the nature of the load: uniform or centre. If you had one long 180gallon tank on top, that would certainly be a uniform load. But do three separate 60gallon tanks qualify as one? I don't know; I do know that this whole thing makes me uncomfortable, and it's not even going into my house!

So let's say you build that unsupported 12 foot span, stick those tanks up top, and then fill only the centre one. Frankly, I wouldn't even do that, but just for gits'n'shiggles why don't you plug in a centre load of, say, 550 pounds (very likely for a single filled 60) and see what the ol' sagulator tells you. How much sag will occur? Will it be enough for the top edges of the tanks begin making contact with each other? How much lateral pressure might they apply to each other if they do?

Incidentally, my suggestion that you attach this structure to the wall was NOT intended to reinforce it in any way, but merely to stabilize the entire hopefully-rigid thing against tipping. Depending upon how well it is attached and how good the wall structure itself is, doing so might very well add rigidity to the rear horizontal support, but won't do anything for the front. If that occurs, then the front might sag while the rear does not, and now you have the center top tank leaning forwards more or less uniformly, while the two end tanks are not supported at all in the front inside corners.

I don't mean to sound negative; you asked for opinions, so I am expressing mine: You definitely should have vertical supports between the middle tanks, holding up the top level. You definitely should have some diagonal, both at the ends and on the backside, to increase rigidity.

And...it sounds as though this thing is being built so tight that all these tanks will barely be able to slide into it, with no gaps at all? What happens a few years down the road, when one of them develops a leak or breaks a glass panel, or for any other reason requires replacement...and you find that the tanks available to you then are a quarter-inch longer, or wider, or whatever? I really think you need to build in some "jiggle room" to allow for unforeseen surprises like that.

Edited to add: Okay, add Milingu to the (long) list of people who are more concise and type faster than I do...

You answered your own question about the missing vertical supports, I said I left them out in that message because I forgot to put them in one of the earlier drawings. They are in the current ones. I also stated that I am going to be adding more length to the whole thing, since the tanks currently barely fit, or fit too tightly together for my liking. While I would like them to be closer together, going off what you were saying, I will likely end up extending the whole thing to account for 3" gaps between the tanks.

 

[jjohnwm]

Sorry, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. Is the drawing in post 19 the newest one or an old version? No verticals in it. I'm referring to vertical supports placed between the 40's, supporting the 60's above.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Sorry, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. Is the drawing in post 19 the newest one or an old version? No verticals in it.

Oh that one? There's vertical supports under the horizontals. Like I said, everything is color coded, the actual columns are that light bluish grey, the vertical supports are black, yellow, and pink. I can get a closer picture if you'd like.

 

[jjohnwm]

Okay, what we have here is a failure to communicate (said in my best Dennis Hopper imitation...).

Never mind pinks, blacks, reds, greens, polka dots...I could walk up to that stand at one end, stick my hand in over top of the 40gallon tank there, and then walk alllllll the way to the other end of the stand and not encounter a support. Those are the supports I am talking about...the ones that aren't there!

Right now, you have five verticals from the bottom (on the floor) up to the middle level. I am suggesting that you extend all five of those up to the top level to support that frightening 12-foot span holding the 60gallon tanks, at intervals along its length. The stand needs to be lengthened to give you that space between the 40's. Or...at the very least...extend the middle one that high. But ideally, I'd do them all.

Refer back to Backfromthedead 's hand-drawn plan way back at the beginning of this thread.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Never mind pinks, blacks, reds, greens, polka dots...I could walk up to that stand at one end, stick my hand in over top of the 40gallon tank there, and then walk alllllll the way to the other end of the stand and not encounter a support. Those are the supports I am talking about...the ones that aren't there!

Ah I see, now I get what you mean. Seeing as I'm now likely extending it lengthwise to have a wider gap between the 40s, I'm not sure why I didn't realize I can also now extend those supports all the way up. I'll get back to you with the third iteration in a bit.

 

[Backfromthedead]

If you really really desired no vertical supports in the middle you would need to use much beefier lumber for the top shelf and the same for the vertical end pillars. For a 12' span I would consider double layered 2x10s with 6x6 posts on each corner, secured with carriage and lag bolts, similar specs to a raised deck design and construction.

I think it was Oughtsix who recently built a super beefy stand with multiple layers of 2x6s for the top frame to save room in the stand.

I am spanning 64" on a 7' 200g tank stand with single 2x10 beams and 2x10 columns on an ongoing build. It will be getting a plywood wrap as well for stability.


You may be able to get away with a single middle post on this rack of yours...have two separate shelves in the middle with 2x 40b's on each. But the more reinforcement you put on this thing, the better. These tanks you have might not be huge but they are bigger than your average LFS shelf setup full of 10 and 20 gallon tanks.

 

[esoxlucius]

Are you seriously planning on building a 12 foot span out of unsupported 2x4's, on which you plan to slap three 60-gallon tanks? Wow.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

I've only very quickly read through this thread and in post #5 I was stopped in my tracks by the design flaw you mentioned. It's glaring.

And it wasn't brought to light until you mentioned it in post #21!! I thought it would have been covered way before you mentioned it!

As mentioned OP, if you want that to be a 12ft unsupported span you need to be going 2x8's, or even better overcook it with 2x10's. Personally I'd stick with your 2x4's though....BUT PUT A CENTRE SUPPORT IN!

And make sure your design gives you plenty of wiggle room for messing with stuff.

 

[Backfromthedead]

Agreed wholeheartedly.

I've only very quickly read through this thread and in post #5 I was stopped in my tracks by the design flaw you mentioned. It's glaring.

And it wasn't brought to light until you mentioned it in post #21!! I thought it would have been covered way before you mentioned it!

As mentioned OP, if you want that to be a 12ft unsupported span you need to be going 2x8's, or even better overcook it with 2x10's. Personally I'd stick with your 2x4's though....BUT PUT A CENTRE SUPPORT IN!

And make sure your design gives you plenty of wiggle room for messing with stuff.

Lol...actually every single person pointed it out in some capacity...or were you being sarcastic and i just a dimwit? I can't tell with you silly britons sometimes?

 

[esoxlucius]

Lol...actually every single person pointed it out in some capacity...or were you being sarcastic and i just a dimwit? I can't tell with you silly britons sometimes?

Like I said I just briefly flicked through it, mainly the worrying pictures of the proposed build. I knew jjohnwm would be on it like a ton of bricks because he's pretty thorough about the construction/DIY side of the hobby, so his post stuck.

There's a good lesson to be learnt from this....if you're gonna get involved in a thread, then don't just skim it if you are planning to reply, as you'll end up making yourself look an arse....like I did, lol.

The main thing though is that the OP has had some good advice on moving forward with his project