Can fish be traumatised?
- Thread starter L3CTR0N
- Start date
Now, now. Don't try to discredit the other side be name calling. There are experts in the tree hugging camp just as there are experts in the blood soaked carnivore side too. Those that live in the world of testable hypotheses would say what I did.... It's unknowable until you figure out how to test for its presence or absence. Without Dr. Doolittle we have never know. The question then becomes, if it's unknowable, at least for now, what should you assume? What would a moral human do? Heady questions.
(Full disclosure, I'm an omnivore)
hello; My neighbors on one side are black angus cattle. I am not sure what bothers them. I know that my lawn mower does not bother them at all. I give them nicknames such as "beef stew", "Quarter pounder", "T-bone", and the big bull is of course "Big Mack". They do not seem to mind what I call them.
They all have ear tags stapled to their ears. Yet they do not seem afraid of their owners. I do not know if they understand the easy life they live now will not be very long, except for the big bull. There is a calculation about when a cow reaches market weight. For a time feeding them adds value as they put on mass. At some point they do not add mass of any value and the feed just keeps them alive. Off to market we go.
They do not have to fear predators, go hungry or get arthritis. They have a barn to get in when the weather is bad.
What this has to do with fish I do not know. I do think fish are several orders less aware that cows. For example I have caught the same fish off the same structure with the same fly a few times. Sorta makes me think the trauma of being hooked and then handled does not make a lasting impression. Or maybe the strike instinct overloads their brain??
They all have ear tags stapled to their ears. Yet they do not seem afraid of their owners. I do not know if they understand the easy life they live now will not be very long, except for the big bull. There is a calculation about when a cow reaches market weight. For a time feeding them adds value as they put on mass. At some point they do not add mass of any value and the feed just keeps them alive. Off to market we go.
They do not have to fear predators, go hungry or get arthritis. They have a barn to get in when the weather is bad.
What this has to do with fish I do not know. I do think fish are several orders less aware that cows. For example I have caught the same fish off the same structure with the same fly a few times. Sorta makes me think the trauma of being hooked and then handled does not make a lasting impression. Or maybe the strike instinct overloads their brain??
Hello; Interesting that we both made useless posts. We have this much in common.
I conceded in my post not knowing how cows related to fish by the way.
To me it boils down to having an opinion as least until some method can be had to "test" for such things as trauma in fish.
I guess some folks "want" fish to have the capacity to be traumatized sort of like people can be. Must fit in to a world view I suppose.
I happen to "want" fish to have very little capacity to be traumatized. This is based on a few things. That was the way biology instruction went back in the day, meaning fish have tiny brains with less development than mammal brains (if I recall correctly). I have dissected fish, amphibians and mammals and had a good look at the nervous systems. That view did fit that type evidence.
Another cause for my view is decades of fishing along with some catching. In the post you took exception with it was the part about catching the same fish a few times which was the meat of the post.
Add to these a few decades of keeping fish. I agree with those who stated fish seem to learn what a net is, at least short term. As much as I "want" this to be true learning and not a normal "instinctual" "flee" reaction, there is still a bit of doubt.
Again until some sort of way to "test" for trauma in fish is devised, it is an opinion thing.
I don't know the answer (I don't think anyone does at this point in time, and we probably never will) but in my own head I like to assume they can be. Not because I want to "humanize" them or anything like that, but because it motivates me to be a better fish keeper. If I assume they can be traumatized by my actions that motivates me to do the best I can to try and avoid such things.
If I'm being brutally honest with myself I doubt many (if any) species of fish would be capable of being truly traumatized the way humans or even cats and dogs can be, but me telling myself that they can be isn't hurting anyone. If anything its inspiring me to always try to do better by the animals I've chosen to keep and in turn improving the quality of life they have in my glass box.
If I'm being brutally honest with myself I doubt many (if any) species of fish would be capable of being truly traumatized the way humans or even cats and dogs can be, but me telling myself that they can be isn't hurting anyone. If anything its inspiring me to always try to do better by the animals I've chosen to keep and in turn improving the quality of life they have in my glass box.
Hello; I like this philosophy. Good job.
By the way welcome back to the forum and the fray.
Not sure if its trama but they definitely have memories of unpleasant events.
We have a pearsei who interacts very differently with my wife and i. The fish is aggressive towards me, bites when im messing around in the tank and wont hand feed with me but will easily hans feed with my wife. We even have vids of him following here back and forth with me he slinks towards the back of the tank.He has gotten moved between tanks quite often i can only assume its the netting and he associates me with being captrured and moved
We have a pearsei who interacts very differently with my wife and i. The fish is aggressive towards me, bites when im messing around in the tank and wont hand feed with me but will easily hans feed with my wife. We even have vids of him following here back and forth with me he slinks towards the back of the tank.He has gotten moved between tanks quite often i can only assume its the netting and he associates me with being captrured and moved
Thoroughly convinced my male salvini has net related ptsd. Every time you get within like 25ft of the tank holding a net he will see you and hide like a scaredy cat. Seriously. He turns alnost gray again for like an hour and will always be the last one you have to catch if you do have to grab him.
