Can I overskim

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Lol well it is another approach to reef keeping. Ok, I have seen only a single design for an algae scrubber (unless you are referencing a refugium). Which involves running your drain lines parallel to your sump and allowing the water to cascade down a fine mesh screen with lights on either side. How do you over size that. I have a 40 gallon+- wet/dry that I ditched the bioballs for about 50 lbs of dry rock. Once the system is up I am going to throw some about a few handfuls of chaeto in there. I am still unsure if that is recommended but the acrylic for the equipment is still clear it's just banged up a little. In the containment area I have my skimmer and thats about it. I was going the get another smaller tank ( prbly a 20 high as I have my g. Tile in that right now and will be upgrading him to a 40 breeder in the next 4 months.) and use that as my refugium. My tank got considerably smaller as I went from a 180 down to a 75 due to space constraints. So in the refugium I was just going to take the chaeto out of the trickle portion of the wet/ dry and rehome it for extra light. There was going to be no sand in there and maybe a few pieces of rock. I am going to tee the refugium into the drain line for the wet/ dry and run a drain from the refugium to the bulkhead for he return pump ( basically just point the tube right into the drain. The skimmer, in light of the two articles, I was going to run opposite my light cycle. I figured at night the corals won't be feeding as much if really at all and that is when most stuff will just fall to the sand and rot.
You really intrigued me with those articles and made me rethink my filtration. I know I wrote. A book but feedback is appreciated. I would like the article on true DSB and any other article you may suggest in regards to the subject.
 
That pretty much sums up an algea scrubber actually haha, I find them much more effective then just having macros growing in a fuge, by over size I mean more then 1 square inch per gallon of mesh, which is the recomended minimu. Also you would be surprized (the one articel metions doubled growth at night as well) the corals will eat all day, and agruably night is more importand as they don't get any energy from light at night (obviously). My DSB is in my display tank always, here is the link about them (he actaully published a book about it as well... but I haven't picked it up yet) http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html, one thing I don't think he puts enough emphasis on in you can't have any fish that disturbe the sand bed regularaly, as it can damage the little ecosystem developing there... Also IMO a true DSB isn't something you should do lightly, they take a wile to set up correctly, and they can go horrably wrong if done poorly. If you are going to do one, I recomend getting the reef mud from http://www.ipsf.com/livesand.html# as well ase their assorted detravor/worm kits, I find they are one of the few places that sells a good chunck of what you need to make a more natural system work.

I'm glad you are looking into alternatives, but part of the reason people don't go this way is its not as easy and can go horribly wrong if done incorrectly... but done correctly, and in theory you should have extreamly healthy corals/fish/tank as a result. The fish love it cuz there is always something little they can chase around, and the corals are always fed (though I "restock" my zoo/phyto every week as there isn't enough space for them to breed a stable population).
 
Kevin8888 said:
Mine? Well currently inbetween systems (because of school), usually I only run a DSB and an over large Algea scrubber (overlarge within reason), basically I do my absolute best to simulate a natural environment. I count on countless micro inverts (zooplanton of assorted sizes, both swimming and substraight living), phyoplancton, micro-worms (sand/rock dwelling) etc to eat big dead stuff (by big i mean small but not water soluable), and count on the phytoplaction (again) and macros for the disolved organics. If your interested in a true DSB, I can throw up a link (another atricle by dr. Ron Shimak) quite informative as well. My water isn't "crystal clear" as so many people like, but I enjoy watching the zooplancton swim and get eaten by fish and what not, but thats just me. Essentially I like to have little swimming things mixed in with biggish swimming things mixed with fish/corals :D lol.
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I love reading stuff like this, because it reaffirms that there are SO many ways to have a successful tank. Many people go with DSB some go shallow, some use skimmers others don't. I have experimented a little on my own to find what works best for me, but it isn't necessarily what everyone else does. I think everyone who keeps a reef is doing what in their belief is natural. I know you are saying skimmers aren't natural, but many would argue the waves in the ocean operate as a natural skimmer. I can see both sides of an argument, I am also enjoying the articles you posted. You'll have to do a build thread next time you start a tank, I like getting new perspectives on the hobby and seeing a tank set up like this would be great.
 
Absolutely. Seeing new ways to manage our water helps meneven if I don't use them because it brings a new perspective. Reefkeeping is so fascinating to me because it satisfies a number of my natural curiosities. I can ask one question, get 10 different answers, and then come to my own conclusion as o what works for my situation. I know forums can be a dangerous place sometimes but if you do your research you always come out ahead.

Kevin the algae scrubber concept is really good and cheap. I am really drawn to it but before I male any commitment, what negative outcome have you experienced or maybe being someone with experience in tue matter could you maybe foresee to someone starting out.
I dont think I am sold on the DSB because I had already planned on sand sifters. What would you suggest to get as a sand starter in regards to animals. I was thinking about spaghetti worms as the idea of them sounds really neat and practical.
 
Love scrubbers, I have never seen a downside, you have to clean them off every week or so depending on growth, but what fiter doesn't need cleaning? lol. The upsides is, the algae removes all the disoved organics that your skimmer can't there by reducing or out right stopping algae blooms in your display, as well as it provides a home/food source for some types of pods, so they help feed you tank wile it cleans it! I have even seen people use the algae from the screans to feed their herbavours (though some wont eat it) I personally plan to try/do this with my next tank that has tangs.

You should probably not do a DSB untill you know more about them and your sure of it, as they can go quite wrong. As for sand sifters, I recomend getting the smaller ones (big ones will starve eventually) like a few sand snails and some micro sand stars. Even If your not doing a DSB it's still a good idea IMO to get sand dwelling detravors like worms and pods and the like. Basically you want multiple sizes of detravors, from little worms, to big worms, from little "shrimp" (zooplancton) to bigish ones, amphipods, etc. The more the veriety the better, the link I posted earlier, the Indo-Pacific Sea Farms, they offer pretty much everything you need for healthy sand/ rock, the only thing left is the water colume it self. For pods that swim in the water all the time rather then in/under the sand/rocks I'd go with http://www.algagen.com/prod/?cat=4 as they offer many sizes of water born zooplanton (as well as other things like amphipods and brines and what not). Diversity is the key (though diversity can get expencive...).
 
i'm new to MFK. but i did have a reef tank for 7+ years. i ditched bioball (wet/dry) because they are nitrate factorys. which is what the algae scrubber is going to feed off of. no we/dry, then less nitrates. live rock has the bacteria to break down amonia and nitrate. i also had a plenum system with macro algae, the lights were on that when the display tank lights were off. the deep sand bed also helps with nitrates.
you can run what ever skimmer you have. the pump size will determine what heat it puts in to your system. i used fans on a temp. controller to keep everything cool.
if you plan on sps and clams, then got MH with T5 actinic. i liked 14,000K or higher for color and penetration of the bluer light.
 
Sarmo said:
i'm new to MFK. but i did have a reef tank for 7+ years. i ditched bioball (wet/dry) because they are nitrate factorys. which is what the algae scrubber is going to feed off of. no we/dry, then less nitrates. live rock has the bacteria to break down amonia and nitrate. i also had a plenum system with macro algae, the lights were on that when the display tank lights were off. the deep sand bed also helps with nitrates.
you can run what ever skimmer you have. the pump size will determine what heat it puts in to your system. i used fans on a temp. controller to keep everything cool.
if you plan on sps and clams, then got MH with T5 actinic. i liked 14,000K or higher for color and penetration of the bluer light.
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There are several lighting systems that can handle reef tanks, all with their own benefits and disadvantages. He could do Halides, LED's, T5's or any combination as long as he had enough PAR for corals.
 
For lighting I am planning on an 8 bulb t5 fixture that will pump out about 5 watts per gallon into a standard 75. I do plan on housing clams but I was intending on tying to have a clam bed on a piece of shelf rock raised about 1/2 way. This would house 3 clams maximum. I dont think I will need halide lighting as the tank isn't that deep. I think I am goin to take kevin's advice and retrofit my wet/ dry to include an algae skimmer in the bioball area. I could then put a bunch Of rock under the ats for a better breeding/ housing ground for microfuana. This would also serve to alleviate any concern of algae spreading to the display as the crustaceans would consume it. I really like the idea of beig able to run a heavily fed system and not have to worry about parameters. I also had failed to fully acknowledge a coral as an animal in need of solid food, and the diet varies based on the coral kept. Such obvious things I would probably never have put together on my own.
 
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