Can you reduce quarantine time with pre treatment?

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Here are examples of what I saw:



Apparently some fishkeepers have a 'package' of medications they automatically use for quarantine.

These are good products if your new fish develops a disease or parasites.
Do you go to the doctor for antibiotics and parasite removal drugs every year in the off chance that you may catch something?
Probably not. Antibiotics resistant strains of diseases are on the rise and it's due to misuse and over use. Just be patient and let the little guy chill in the QT. In the end though, it's really up to you.
 
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Just as humans get them, fish can get virus's which are untreatable in most case, one of the more common ones is Lymphocytus.
Fish can also get bacterial diseases, some like gram neg columnaris react to certain antibiotics, but not others.
Some get infected with crustacean type parasites, that need chitin inhibitors for treatment.
Many have dormant stages that that don't react to treatment at all, until they morph to another stage.
Any of the above can spread throughout a tank.
 
No new fish yet, just thought this a curious approach and thought I'd share it here...it's interesting these fishkeepers are so adamant it works. All I could think of was my Albino baby O that perished from ick medication (ick was in the tank) but the other baby O (Brick) that actually had ick flourished and was fine. Just proves medications are indeed a balancing act.

Wasn't sure if this pre treatment was a common practice or some trial and error deal being promoted.
 
Misusing antibiotics is VERY BAD, because it causes the bacteria to change so the antibiotics no longer work. I'm not surprised they are so adamant it works, stupidity breeds confidence, it's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 
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Pre-treating fish doesn't necessarily equate to using antibiotics. I would personally never use antibiotics just because.

On the other hand other meds can be quite safe when used properly, and can be quite sensible for a hobbyist to use as a form of treatment with new fish. As an example, IMO & IME all newly acquired flowerhorn that come from Thailand, Vietnam, etc, should be dewormed. After following a proper deworming protocol I also always advise treating for Spironucleus aka Hexamita, as this is extremely common in juvenile flowerhorn raised in these parts of the world. (where live blood worm are fed as main source of food) The latter can often be resolved using something as simple as epsom salt, only more advanced stages typically require antibiotics such as Metronidazole.

Several decades of overuse & total abuse of antibiotics is why my country no longer allows the sale of those meds at LFS. Vet script only now.


I posted the following here on MFK several yrs ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23294440/

Imported ornamental fish are colonized with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Rose S, et al. J Fish Dis. 2013.

Abstract
There has been growing concern about the overuse of antibiotics in the ornamental fish industry and its possible effect on the increasing drug resistance in both commensal and pathogenic organisms in these fish. The aim of this study was to carry out an assessment of the diversity of bacteria, including pathogens, in ornamental fish species imported into North America and to assess their antibiotic resistance. Kidney samples were collected from 32 freshwater ornamental fish of various species, which arrived to an importing facility in Portland, Oregon from Colombia, Singapore and Florida. Sixty-four unique bacterial colonies were isolated and identified by PCR using bacterial 16S primers and DNA sequencing. Multiple isolates were identified as bacteria with potential to cause disease in both fish and humans. The antibiotic resistance profile of each isolate was performed for nine different antibiotics. Among them, cefotaxime (16% resistance among isolates) was the antibiotic associated with more activity, while the least active was tetracycline (77% resistant). Knowing information about the diversity of bacteria in imported ornamental fish, as well as the resistance profiles for the bacteria will be useful in more effectively treating clinical infected fish, and also potential zoonoses in the future.


And a follow up of that study.

https://today.oregonstate.edu/archi...industry-faces-problems-antibiotic-resistance

Ornamental fish industry faces problems with antibiotic resistance

January 15, 2013
NEWPORT, Ore. - The $15 billion ornamental fish industry faces a global problem with antibiotic resistance, a new study concludes, raising concern that treatments for fish diseases may not work when needed - and creating yet another mechanism for exposing humans to antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

The risk to humans is probably minor unless they frequently work with fish or have compromised immune systems, researchers said, although transmission of disease from tropical fish has been shown to occur. More serious is the risk to this industry, which has grown significantly in recent years, and is now a $900 million annual business in the United States.

There are few regulations in the U.S. or elsewhere about treating ornamental fish with antibiotics, experts say. Antibiotics are used routinely, such as when fish are facing stress due to transport, whether or not they have shown any sign of disease.

"We expected to find some antibiotic resistance, but it was surprising to find such high levels, including resistance in some cases where the antibiotic is rarely used," said Tim Miller-Morgan, a veterinary aquatics specialist with Oregon State University. "We appear to already have set ourselves up for some pretty serious problems within the industry."

In the new study, 32 freshwater fish of various species were tested for resistance to nine different antibiotics, and some resistance was found to every antibiotic. The highest level of resistance, 77 percent, was found with the common antibiotic tetracycline. The fish were tested in Portland, Ore., after being transported from Colombia, Singapore and Florida.

Findings of the study were reported in the Journal of Fish Diseases.

The bacterial infections found in the fish included Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, Staphylococcus and others, several of which can infect both fish and humans.

"The range of resistance is often quite disturbing," the scientists wrote in their report. "It is not uncommon to see resistance to a wide range of antibiotic classes, including beta-lactams, macrolides, tetracyclines, sulphonamides, quinolones, cephalosporins and chloramphenicol."

Problems and concerns with antibiotic resistance have been growing for years, Miller-Morgan said. The nature of the resistance can range widely, causing an antibiotic to lose some, or all of its effectiveness.

There have been documented cases of disease transmission from fish to humans, he said, but it's not common. It would be a particular concern for anyone with a weak or compromised immune system, he pointed out, and people with such health issues should discuss tropical fish management with their physician. Workers who constantly handle tropical fish may also face a higher level of risk.

From an industry perspective, losses of fish to bacterial disease may become increasingly severe, he said, because antibiotics will lose their effectiveness.

Anyone handling tropical fish can use some basic precautions that should help, Miller-Morgan said. Consumers should buy only healthy fish; avoid cleaning tanks with open cuts or sores on their hands; use gloves; immediately remove sick fish from tanks; consider quarantining all new fish in a separate tank for 30 days; wash hands after working with fish; and never use antibiotics in a fish tank unless actually treating a known fish disease caused by bacteria.

"We don't think individuals should ever use antibiotics in a random, preventive or prophylactic method," Miller-Morgan said. "Even hobbyists can learn more about how to identify tropical fish parasites and diseases, and use antibiotics only if a bacterial disease is diagnosed."

On an industry level, he said, considerable progress could be made with improvements in fish husbandry, better screening and handling, and use of quarantines, rather than antibiotics, to reduce fish disease.

The ornamental fish industry is large and diverse, including trade of more than 6,000 species of freshwater and marine fish from more than 100 different countries. About half the supply originates in Asia, and freshwater farming of ornamental fish is a rapidly growing industry.



Also increasing is the number of trained fish veterinarians, who can help fish hobbyists to reduce disease loss and save treasured pets. More information is available from the World Aquatic Veterinary Medical Association and the American Association of Fish Veterinarians. A database of aquatic veterinarians is available online, at http://aquavetmed.info
 
Pre-treating fish doesn't necessarily equate to using antibiotics. I would personally never use antibiotics just because.

On the other hand other meds can be quite safe when used properly, and can be quite sensible for a hobbyist to use as a form of treatment with new fish. As an example, IMO & IME all newly acquired flowerhorn that come from Thailand, Vietnam, etc, should be dewormed. After following a proper deworming protocol I also always advise treating for Spironucleus aka Hexamita, as this is extremely common in juvenile flowerhorn raised in these parts of the world. (where live blood worm are fed as main source of food) The latter can often be resolved using something as simple as epsom salt, only more advanced stages typically require antibiotics such as Metronidazole.

Several decades of overuse & total abuse of antibiotics is why my country no longer allows the sale of those meds at LFS. Vet script only now.


I posted the following here on MFK several yrs ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23294440/

Imported ornamental fish are colonized with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Rose S, et al. J Fish Dis. 2013.

Abstract
There has been growing concern about the overuse of antibiotics in the ornamental fish industry and its possible effect on the increasing drug resistance in both commensal and pathogenic organisms in these fish. The aim of this study was to carry out an assessment of the diversity of bacteria, including pathogens, in ornamental fish species imported into North America and to assess their antibiotic resistance. Kidney samples were collected from 32 freshwater ornamental fish of various species, which arrived to an importing facility in Portland, Oregon from Colombia, Singapore and Florida. Sixty-four unique bacterial colonies were isolated and identified by PCR using bacterial 16S primers and DNA sequencing. Multiple isolates were identified as bacteria with potential to cause disease in both fish and humans. The antibiotic resistance profile of each isolate was performed for nine different antibiotics. Among them, cefotaxime (16% resistance among isolates) was the antibiotic associated with more activity, while the least active was tetracycline (77% resistant). Knowing information about the diversity of bacteria in imported ornamental fish, as well as the resistance profiles for the bacteria will be useful in more effectively treating clinical infected fish, and also potential zoonoses in the future.


And a follow up of that study.

https://today.oregonstate.edu/archi...industry-faces-problems-antibiotic-resistance

Ornamental fish industry faces problems with antibiotic resistance

January 15, 2013
NEWPORT, Ore. - The $15 billion ornamental fish industry faces a global problem with antibiotic resistance, a new study concludes, raising concern that treatments for fish diseases may not work when needed - and creating yet another mechanism for exposing humans to antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

The risk to humans is probably minor unless they frequently work with fish or have compromised immune systems, researchers said, although transmission of disease from tropical fish has been shown to occur. More serious is the risk to this industry, which has grown significantly in recent years, and is now a $900 million annual business in the United States.

There are few regulations in the U.S. or elsewhere about treating ornamental fish with antibiotics, experts say. Antibiotics are used routinely, such as when fish are facing stress due to transport, whether or not they have shown any sign of disease.

"We expected to find some antibiotic resistance, but it was surprising to find such high levels, including resistance in some cases where the antibiotic is rarely used," said Tim Miller-Morgan, a veterinary aquatics specialist with Oregon State University. "We appear to already have set ourselves up for some pretty serious problems within the industry."

In the new study, 32 freshwater fish of various species were tested for resistance to nine different antibiotics, and some resistance was found to every antibiotic. The highest level of resistance, 77 percent, was found with the common antibiotic tetracycline. The fish were tested in Portland, Ore., after being transported from Colombia, Singapore and Florida.

Findings of the study were reported in the Journal of Fish Diseases.

The bacterial infections found in the fish included Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, Staphylococcus and others, several of which can infect both fish and humans.

"The range of resistance is often quite disturbing," the scientists wrote in their report. "It is not uncommon to see resistance to a wide range of antibiotic classes, including beta-lactams, macrolides, tetracyclines, sulphonamides, quinolones, cephalosporins and chloramphenicol."

Problems and concerns with antibiotic resistance have been growing for years, Miller-Morgan said. The nature of the resistance can range widely, causing an antibiotic to lose some, or all of its effectiveness.

There have been documented cases of disease transmission from fish to humans, he said, but it's not common. It would be a particular concern for anyone with a weak or compromised immune system, he pointed out, and people with such health issues should discuss tropical fish management with their physician. Workers who constantly handle tropical fish may also face a higher level of risk.

From an industry perspective, losses of fish to bacterial disease may become increasingly severe, he said, because antibiotics will lose their effectiveness.

Anyone handling tropical fish can use some basic precautions that should help, Miller-Morgan said. Consumers should buy only healthy fish; avoid cleaning tanks with open cuts or sores on their hands; use gloves; immediately remove sick fish from tanks; consider quarantining all new fish in a separate tank for 30 days; wash hands after working with fish; and never use antibiotics in a fish tank unless actually treating a known fish disease caused by bacteria.

"We don't think individuals should ever use antibiotics in a random, preventive or prophylactic method," Miller-Morgan said. "Even hobbyists can learn more about how to identify tropical fish parasites and diseases, and use antibiotics only if a bacterial disease is diagnosed."

On an industry level, he said, considerable progress could be made with improvements in fish husbandry, better screening and handling, and use of quarantines, rather than antibiotics, to reduce fish disease.

The ornamental fish industry is large and diverse, including trade of more than 6,000 species of freshwater and marine fish from more than 100 different countries. About half the supply originates in Asia, and freshwater farming of ornamental fish is a rapidly growing industry.



Also increasing is the number of trained fish veterinarians, who can help fish hobbyists to reduce disease loss and save treasured pets. More information is available from the World Aquatic Veterinary Medical Association and the American Association of Fish Veterinarians. A database of aquatic veterinarians is available online, at http://aquavetmed.info

Thanks for sharing Neil -- I'm not very well-versed in medicinal kind of stuff: besides epsom salt treatment as you mentioned what are some useful meds that aren't classified as antibiotics?
 
I guess I’ll be the one who goes against the grain here. I have pre medicated my fish using the method above during quarantine and found no problems doing so. I used it to be proactive and protect my main stock from the new fish as the fish I got were fed feeders like most are. I wouldn’t use it to try and speed up a qt but in addition to it.
 
Thanks for sharing Neil -- I'm not very well-versed in medicinal kind of stuff: besides epsom salt treatment as you mentioned what are some useful meds that aren't classified as antibiotics?

I generally like to start small, so with species that are not negatively affected by regular kosher salt, that's what I start with. If nothing else it helps new fish adjust to the stress of being netted/moved, as it assists in osmoregulatory stress. A salt little goes a long ways.

As far as actual meds, that when used properly are easy on the fish, and are not antibiotics, Praziquantel, Levamisole, Fenbendazole. ( latter two are anthelmintic de-wormers) I'm sure that there are plenty of other meds that do not fall under the antibiotic umbrella, including some that you have recently mentioned on the forum - truth is I seldom use meds. The only med I recall using over the past several yrs is NLS Hex-Shield, which contains Metronidazole, magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt), and a mega dose of garlic. Great way to resolve spiro/hex before it gets out of hand - of course the fish need to be actively eating to get the food into their gut. (or force feed with pipette & tube) I also try to avoid buying fish from the LFS, which IME reduces the vast majority of potential problems. Best to buy from trusted sources, be it breeder, local hobbyist, etc.

IMO, using antibiotics willy-nilly is no bueno, my previous post explains why that is, and why we now have so many antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria in tropical fish.
 
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