Can't stand super weak cichlids

[candidpets]

Is it possible to get a EBJ that is as aggressive and tough as a normal JD? Recently I saw a bunch of EJB at a pet store but this time half the fry were black. THe black fry looked female? Does that mean this batch would be half normal jd half electric? It is just EJB are so fragile and wimpy they get beat up by just about every cichlid species. THey are more fragile than firemouth even. The fire mouth here are also very fragile and will get killed and bullied by anything. What is more aggressive a servum or firemouth? Or electric jd?

 

[Deadeye]

When cichlids get line bred for color, or really any trait, a side effect is that lack of robustness. Not only do they lose much of their aggression over time, but the heavy inbreeding also causes a lot of defects that create these weak, unhealthy fish. Without pics I couldn’t say if it was ebjds mixed with regular at the store. A ebjd as perfectly capable as a real Jack would be a one in a million find.
I would still say severums are the least aggressive of the batch you mentioned though - you can get mean ones but the typical “heros efasciatus” (often hybrids at most stores) are generally very mild mannered. I’ve never seen any aggression from mine in the 3 years I’ve had it - the rainbow cichlid half his size pushes him around.
Firemouths are hit or miss, but are mostly show. They can put up a fight (like any cichlid) but have a weaker jaw than the others. I don’t have much experience with them though, so I can’t say for sure how it would stand (meaner than a sev though).
Jack by default is still probably the most naturally aggressive.
All of these cichlids occupy different niches in nature, however, so it does make the comparison harder to judge, as such differences would reduce the competition between them and therefore aggression if kept together.

 

[Gourami Swami]

Some fish are more aggressive than others. Do your research and keep fish with appropriate tankmates in properly sized setups, and you shouldn't have to worry about your fish getting beaten up or killed. Sure, there are unpredictable situations especially with cichlids. But for example, if you attempt to keep a firemouth in a small tank like a 55 gallon with a red devil, it will likely be killed. And the one at fault here is not the firemouth for being exactly as they evolved to be, it's the owner for putting the fish in a bad situation.

 

[duanes]

Some fish are more aggressive than others. Do your research and keep fish with appropriate tankmates in properly sized setups, and you shouldn't have to worry about your fish getting beaten up or killed. Sure, there are unpredictable situations especially with cichlids. But for example, if you attempt to keep a firemouth in a small tank like a 55 gallon with a red devil, it will likely be killed. And the one at fault here is not the firemouth for being exactly as they evolved to be, it's the owner for putting the fish in a bad situation.

Agree
In nature FMs are a shoaling species (much like Geophagines, as they are the earth eaters of Central America), so keeping 1 or a pair is out of character for them, normally they would live a shoal of 4 -6.
I also agree that whenever a cichlid is line-bred, such as EBJDs, or even gold severums, by just focusing on trying to get fancy color, their natural robustness and immune response is also often sacrificed.
But even in nature when JDs share habitat with more aggressive species, they don't fair well.
Below are a coupe videos I took in Mexican Cenote's where JDs are endemic .
Eden2
In the video above, where JDs are the dominant cichlid, their population is high, and most are healthy.
But in the Cenote below where they are not the dominant cichlid, the JD population is low, and only the most robust survive.
027 zps4b102ffd
So trying to combine ill matched cichlids in the same small tank, is often not a success.
For some to live communally, a tank of minimum 300 gals may be needed.
Do the research and only combine those that coexist together in nature, in a proper size tank, and things could go well.
There are over 300 species of cichlids in Central and South America, many with differing thresholds of aggression, and requiring different water parameters.
Just tossing different species together because they are cichlids, and expecting them to thrive is not realistic.

 

[candidpets]

When cichlids get line bred for color, or really any trait, a side effect is that lack of robustness. Not only do they lose much of their aggression over time, but the heavy inbreeding also causes a lot of defects that create these weak, unhealthy fish. Without pics I couldn’t say if it was ebjds mixed with regular at the store. A ebjd as perfectly capable as a real Jack would be a one in a million find.
I would still say severums are the least aggressive of the batch you mentioned though - you can get mean ones but the typical “heros efasciatus” (often hybrids at most stores) are generally very mild mannered. I’ve never seen any aggression from mine in the 3 years I’ve had it - the rainbow cichlid half his size pushes him around.
Firemouths are hit or miss, but are mostly show. They can put up a fight (like any cichlid) but have a weaker jaw than the others. I don’t have much experience with them though, so I can’t say for sure how it would stand (meaner than a sev though).
Jack by default is still probably the most naturally aggressive.
All of these cichlids occupy different niches in nature, however, so it does make the comparison harder to judge, as such differences would reduce the competition between them and therefore aggression if kept together.

THIS Is what i thought but I see all kinds of electric or coloured fish like the electric aracara or even animals bred for color. They are never produced this pathetic and this different from the original strain? Thousands of snakes are produced for color I have never met one that turned out that pathetic and weak.

 

[candidpets]

No it does not matter tank size. I can put a EJD or Firemouth I never knew about keeping them in groups and not pairs? in a 200 gallon. IF they have one bad fight with a jewel cichlid or salvini they are finished and dead. gold gourami fish are so much more nasty than the blue ones. Aren't they also man made?

 

[candidpets]

Is there any fish that looks like a fire mouth from the same family but more tough and might do well with more aggressive fish?

 

[candidpets]

Some fish are more aggressive than others. Do your research and keep fish with appropriate tankmates in properly sized setups, and you shouldn't have to worry about your fish getting beaten up or killed. Sure, there are unpredictable situations especially with cichlids. But for example, if you attempt to keep a firemouth in a small tank like a 55 gallon with a red devil, it will likely be killed. And the one at fault here is not the firemouth for being exactly as they evolved to be, it's the owner for putting the fish in a bad situation.

Wait tho a 55 gallon with a red devil no fish will survive. Not a slavini nothing other than MBuna can live with large red devil in a smaller tank. But i am talking weaker species like Jacks, Texas, Salvini, Convict, all can go together but will start to bullly fire mouths. No fish other than mbuna can survive a 55 with a red devil. There are some mbuna that are so nasty will bully 10 inch JD or TExas in a six foot tank. Used as dither fish and are still too aggressive to be in there. They are great dither fish for Red Devils and flower horns. The issue with red devil and midas they are not even that aggressive. They have very strong jaws and thick thick skin that Texas or JD do not have. I think Salvini do have strong jaws but they have weak skin because jewel cichilds can kill them.

 

[candidpets]

Agree
In nature FMs are a shoaling species (much like Geophagines, as they are the earth eaters of Central America), so keeping 1 or a pair is out of character for them, normally they would live a shoal of 4 -6.
I also agree that whenever a cichlid is line-bred, such as EBJDs, or even gold severums, by just focusing on trying to get fancy color, their natural robustness and immune response is also often sacrificed.
But even in nature when JDs share habitat with more aggressive species, they don't fair well.
Below are a coupe videos I took in Mexican Cenote's where JDs are endemic .
Eden2
In the video above, where JDs are the dominant cichlid, their population is high, and most are healthy.
But in the Cenote below where they are not the dominant cichlid, the JD population is low, and only the most robust survive.
027 zps4b102ffd
So trying to combine ill matched cichlids in the same small tank, is often not a success.
For some to live communally, a tank of minimum 300 gals may be needed.
Do the research and only combine those that coexist together in nature, in a proper size tank, and things could go well.
There are over 300 species of cichlids in Central and South America, many with differing thresholds of aggression, and requiring different water parameters.
Just tossing different species together because they are cichlids, and expecting them to thrive is not realistic.

Hey I have an important question. In the wild videos which cichlids were too aggressive for JD to thrive with? Must be false red terrors aka mayan cichild? OR feral jewel cichilds? TIlapia?

I watched the video again a few times. Even the texas cichlids are so ripped up???? What did this to them?

 

[Man-made Monsters]

If you are keeping aggressive cichlids you are going to do much better long term by keeping them in a species only tank. The fact that you are talking about firemouths losing fights and death is clearly pointing to too small of tanks and or incompatible tank mates. Look at the advise given in the previous responses. Everyone is trying to lead you in a successful direction.