Can't stand super weak cichlids

[candidpets]

If you are keeping aggressive cichlids you are going to do much better long term by keeping them in a species only tank. The fact that you are talking about firemouths losing fights and death is clearly pointing to too small of tanks and or incompatible tank mates. Look at the advise given in the previous responses. Everyone is trying to lead you in a successful direction.

not true I had 150 gallon and 300 gallon and my fire mouth I still lost them. I also lost my EJB. I did not keep them with super aggressive cichlids either nothing like a red devil. Just JD salvini and yeah i put african river fish like jewels in my tank as dithers.

 

[candidpets]

If you are keeping aggressive cichlids you are going to do much better long term by keeping them in a species only tank. The fact that you are talking about firemouths losing fights and death is clearly pointing to too small of tanks and or incompatible tank mates. Look at the advise given in the previous responses. Everyone is trying to lead you in a successful direction.

ALso your philosophy is false the below videos just shows even with never ending space even aggressive cichlids can get beat up and killed in the wild. Look at the texas and JD in this video they are torn up close to death

Space can help sometimes but sometimes fish just suck

WHat are the killifish in these videos? ARe they offered in the trade? Id love to have some.

 

[duanes]

In nature, in a cichlid spawn, the survival rate out of 1000 fry is usually no more than 1 (Ad Konings, Cichlids from Central America, 1989), which allows for only the fittest, the most robust, and instinctually savy to become a mature healthy adult and breed, allowing only those robust genes to be perpetuated..
In captivity, often many fry are saved, whether robust or not, allowing inferior genes to continue.
And when line bred for color varients are the goal , the profit motive assures, many that are not worthy pass on genes do.
Generally recognized in the unhealthy line bred forms such as "blue" Rams, and EBJDs among others.

And to suggest that tank size doesn't matter to inherently territorial fish such as "all" cichlids, is ignoring cichlid aquarium history, and science.
The other cichlids in the video are Mayaheros uropthalmus.
In the video below, is a Cenote dominated by uropthalmus, but the ones seen in the open, are subdominant males and females.
The 20" alfa males have caves in deep water, ultimate territories in the middle of the Cenote half the size of a football field each , and are assured they are only ones that get to spawn, and pass on robust genes.
As you can see the the subdominant males, and unresponsive females have been severely beaten by the dominant individuals, and relegated to te outer perimeter of the space.
Azul imovie edit

 

[candidpets]

In nature, in a cichlid spawn, the survival rate out of 1000 fry is usually no more than 1 (Ad Konings, Cichlids from Central America, 1989), which allows for only the fittest, the most robust, and instinctually savy to become a mature healthy adult and breed, allowing only those robust genes to be perpetuated..
In captivity, often many fry are saved, whether robust or not, allowing inferior genes to continue.
And when line bred for color varients are the goal , the profit motive assures, many that are not worthy pass on genes do.
Generally recognized in the unhealthy line bred forms such as "blue" Rams, and EBJDs among others.

And to suggest that tank size doesn't matter to inherently territorial fish such as "all" cichlids, is ignoring cichlid aquarium history, and science.
The other cichlids in the video are Mayaheros uropthalmus.
In the video below, is a Cenote dominated by uropthalmus, but the ones seen in the open, are subdominant males and females.
The 20" alfa males have caves in deep water, ultimate territories in the middle of the Cenote half the size of a football field each , and are assured they are only ones that get to spawn, and pass on robust genes.
As you can see the the subdominant males, and unresponsive females have been severely beaten by the dominant individuals, and relegated to te outer perimeter of the space.
Azul imovie edit

No I agree tank size does make a huge difference and in a lot of cases the aggression and death of fish is usually from lack of space. But in many cases no amount of space can save the fish like in the Cenote video those fish look so brutalized and torn up even though they have never ending space? THey were allowed to grow to good size yet still look horrible. Mayan cichlid dominate JD and TEXAS?

I thought texas and jewel cichlids took over cenote?

 

[duanes]

I have dove in at leasthalf dozen Cenotes, and never seen an African jewel cichlid (genus Hemichromis).
I have heard they were introduced to the desert pools of Cuatro Cienegas, but the native Herichthys minckleyi have (so far) persevered.

 

[Deadeye]

THIS Is what i thought but I see all kinds of electric or coloured fish like the electric aracara or even animals bred for color. They are never produced this pathetic and this different from the original strain? Thousands of snakes are produced for color I have never met one that turned out that pathetic and weak.

Just about all of the line bred morphs are less aggressive, smaller, and weaker than their wild counterparts - it the severity of the inbreeding (and the individual species) to get that morph that makes a huge difference.

 

[neutrino]

There's no natural law that selective breeding creates weaker animals, including fish. It depends on the species you're working with, the characteristic you're selecting for, whether there are unintended consequences, etc. As a fish example, the early pigeon blood discus were very robust fish-- I had them, more than typical discus of the day, more than most wilds of the day-- I had them also. It's been the 30 some years of everyone and their lab assistant trying to wring these candy colors out of them that's resulted in some of the weak strains out there now. For that matter mildly line bred varieties, like turquoise discus, were more robust than typical wilds of the day and candy colored strains now.

Depending on what you believe, EBJD history is somewhat shrouded in conspiracy theory, but it's likely that the mutation causing their color goes hand in hand with genetic weakness, which some breeders have worked hard to reduce to try and make them healthier.

What has been shown in studies of some fish species-- not all-- is being tank raised reduces their aggression. Sometimes as quickly as F1, which, as such studies were designed to determine, means the effect is due to environment their raised in, not line breeding. Studies are also out there saying more complex tank environments reduce aggression vs bare tanks, etc.

 

[jjohnwm]

There's no natural law that selective breeding creates weaker animals, including fish. It depends on the species you're working with, the characteristic you're selecting for, whether there are unintended consequences, etc. As a fish example, the early pigeon blood discus were very robust fish-- I had them, more than typical discus of the day, more than most wilds of the day-- I had them also. It's been the 30 some years of everyone and their lab assistant trying to wring these candy colors out of them that's resulted in some of the weak strains out there now. For that matter mildly line bred varieties, like turquoise discus, were more robust than typical wilds of the day and candy colored strains now.

Depending on what you believe, EBJD history is somewhat shrouded in conspiracy theory, but it's likely that the mutation causing their color goes hand in hand with genetic weakness, which some breeders have worked hard to reduce to try and make them healthier.

What has been shown in studies of some fish species-- not all-- is being tank raised reduces their aggression. Sometimes as quickly as F1, which, as such studies were designed to determine, means the effect is due to environment their raised in, not line breeding. Studies are also out there saying more complex tank environments reduce aggression vs bare tanks, etc.

Had to give this post a "love" rather than a mere "like"...partially due to neutrino 's typically intelligent, well-thought-out presentation of relevant information, but the use of the phrase "...everyone and their lab assistant..." elevates this to near-art!

I honestly can't tell if this thread is about genetically "weak" fish varieties created by line-breeding in search of New-and-Shiny...or if the OP just loves watching fish beat the crap out of each other and doesn't like species that don't spend all their time and energy doing that...

 

[neutrino]

jjohnwm --not quite sure of the appropriate response on a forum, but I appreciate the 'kind thoughts.'

Not so sure about intelligent when I come back to see I wrote "their raised in," which should have been "they're raised in."

 

[jjohnwm]

Not so sure about intelligent when I come back to see I wrote "their raised in," which should have been "they're raised in."

Easy mistake to make; just recognizing it probably places you in the top tenth percentile of posters. Of course...if you're gonna get technical...it should really be "in which they're raised"...

Best to consider it a form of artistic licence.