ceramic rings

[tcarswell]

UGh

Brian I am glad to see your participating in experiments regarding what you disagree about. Its a big step up from flaming people who have already done such experiments with very convincing results.
However I may consider adding a power head in place of the Rena to keep flow similar to when it was there. Or just remove the media and leave the filter.

Yogurt your post cracked me up (The cool hand luke one) And I thank you as well for participating in the experiments. The findings that NC_Nutcase , You , And I (Starting the 10 gallon bare tank challenge) and perhaps even Brian may help people save money for other aspects of fish keeping (I.E FISH!!!) in the future.

Hats off guys. I am glad to see this argument start to take a direction into further experimentation.

 

[Toby_H]

Whose argument is that? It's crazy, if not stupid, to even have a slight thought that your tank does not need bio media! May be "fancy" bio media is not needed, but that doesn't mean bio media in any form is not needed at all!

Twisting people's words out of context is useless...


Bacteria will grow on almost anything... so if you considered everything that bacteria could grow on bio media... and set up a tank without bio media... you would be trying to make a ball of water float in the air...


Obviously we are not talking about suspending water in mid air without a container... common sense is a must in intelligent conversations...


When we say "Bio Media" we mean the stuff that is marketed as bio media, not every single thing under the sun that has a physical surface...


Having an intellectual conversation on this forum is impossible with every Tom, Dick and Harry twisting intelligent comments into nonsense for the purpose of promoting drama...

 

[jlnguyen74]

Having an intellectual conversation on this forum is impossible with every Tom, Dick and Harry twisting intelligent comments into nonsense for the purpose of promoting drama...

Very well said!

 

[12 Volt Man]

I guess what it really boils down to is what one considers as bio media.

correct.

nitrifiers grow on your gravel, they grow on your carbon chips, they grow on your filter lines (on the inside) they grow on your filter sponges, they grow on pretty much everything in your tank...

thats just the reality of the biological system that we call an aquarium..

 

[yogurt_21]

30 hour update:

Ammonia Reading is 0
Nitrite reading is 0
Nitrate is 40ppm

w/c scheduled for monday.

fish look happy and are begging for food every time I check something. unless I have the camera up that is lol.

 

[Bderick67]

UGh

Brian I am glad to see your participating in experiments regarding what you disagree about. Its a big step up from flaming people who have already done such experiments with very convincing results.
However I may consider adding a power head in place of the Rena to keep flow similar to when it was there. Or just remove the media and leave the filter.

Nope, nothing will be added or substituted. The media will slowly be reduced in the remaining xp3 and then the filter will be removed.

According to you guys this tank will have enough internal surface area to support itself. We will see if this holds true. I'm not going to add anything to make the internal surface area more efficient, if I were then why wouldn't I just add an UGF.

 

[yogurt_21]

Nope, nothing will be added or substituted. The media will slowly be reduced in the remaining xp3 and then the filter will be removed.

According to you guys this tank will have enough internal surface area to support itself. We will see if this holds true. I'm not going to add anything to make the internal surface area more efficient, if I were then why wouldn't I just add an UGF.

your experiment while seeming to be based on surface area is reducing flow every time you take away an xp3 thus adding an untested variable which will always skew results and allow people to toss your finding aside based on the fact that an untested variable that was not part of your hypothesis was included.

removing media is all that is being tested for yet you are now created dead spots of flow by taking away the whole filters. As I stated before, take out the media and keep all 3 xp3's going like they were before. Otherwise you're setting your experiment up to be debunked.

 

[12 Volt Man]

any scientific experiment without a control group has no validity.

you always need a control group to determine whether or not some other factor is affecting your results (ie that some other influences are affecting your dependent variable) that you were not expecting.

without a control group, what you think is affecting the outcome might not be affecting the outcome at all..


it could be something else.

I have not read through this whole thread, so I am not sure how this experiment is set up. later I will try and read through it all (I am at work now lol)..

 

[yogurt_21]

any scientific experiment without a control group has no validity.

you always need a control group to determine whether or not some other factor is affecting your results (ie that some other influences are affecting your dependent variable) that you were not expecting.

without a control group, what you think is affecting the outcome might not be affecting the outcome at all..


it could be something else.

I have not read through this whole thread, so I am not sure how this experiment is set up. later I will try and read through it all (I am at work now lol)..

well dang in this case I'd need to do this on my breeding tubs which are identical.

One control group with subtrate, mechanical, and "bio"
One setup without substrate or "Bio" and only mechanical
One setup with substrate and mechanical but no "bio"

hmm stock/decorations/plants would also have to be the same.

I'll pall around with it for a while and see what i can do. The experiment interests me so hopefully i can make it work.

so basically what 12 volt man just validly pointed out is that all of us trying this have failed lol.

since our setups are all different and have no control we have no idea what the results mean.

 

[Bderick67]

your experiment while seeming to be based on surface area is reducing flow every time you take away an xp3 thus adding an untested variable which will always skew results and allow people to toss your finding aside based on the fact that an untested variable that was not part of your hypothesis was included.

removing media is all that is being tested for yet you are now created dead spots of flow by taking away the whole filters. As I stated before, take out the media and keep all 3 xp3's going like they were before. Otherwise you're setting your experiment up to be debunked.

They can toss my findings where ever they want. This is already turning from a " what you don't need" to a "what you don't need if....." Which has been my original point from the first reply that I entered in this argument 3 months ago.



BTW for those who care;

Looks the 150g has recovered from tthe removing of the first xp3 as ammonia and nitrite levels are zero. Tommorrow there will be a 50% WC, will have to see how the tank deals with the 1.0ppm of ammonia in the tap water that will be added during the WC