Cichla Sao Francisco

[fugupuff]

with that being said, I dont' think anyone can tell yet, the difference between cb and wild azuls or fish raised in pens. I have 2 Brazilian suppliers, that will ship from Brazil, azuls, they say that are captured and raised to be sold. Many fish are obtained in different ways. Arapaima and silver arowana are still often killed for their babies. But since arapaima are protected, they just throw a thousand babies in the pond and pass them off as c.b. with CITES paper. This has been known for decades, but people refuse to accept it. THere are a few places breeding them, maybe. But due to the size of the fish, its usually just a bunch of wild fish corraled into the same pens for their babies also.

Bro, I like u man, but u do know that EVERY vendor is gonna face this problem right? Just because u dun buy from Wes doesn't mean another reputable vendor is not doing the same thing OR exporter labeling these azul as wc to our vendors right. The thing that got to me was that there has been a recent influx of Azuls when they used to be so hard to get WC or not. I'm thinking that MAYBE all wc Azuls imported recently are from these pens. We will nv know but we should be more opened minded. If u really feel so strongly abt this, I advise not taking any Azul to be wc and all as cb no matter who is selling.

 

[fugupuff]

Hey Hugh,

That is why, in our conversations, I gather that some people are mature and can become true friends. Though we have never met, we have mutual respect for each other. Sorry to drag you into this. BUt I do have to say these internet mongers are really viscious. They try to make me sound like a bandit that sent them a goldfish instead of a peacock bass with no issues. You are always, still welcomed to come visit, just waiting on you!

This is Nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I will tell you what kind of guy WES is I had "never" Ordered any fish from WES before the pinima "EVER"So i had been searching for about a year for pinima and did not want somebody's wrecked beat up junk that could never recover so i found some from an Importer in germany that goes on his own collection expoditions I approached Wes and asked him to import them because if i attempted to do it i figured i would be stuck with a bunch of fish that people would not pay for because they are alays cryen about price!!!!And guess what Wes did it and he did not even know me ..Made me think this guy is definatly a hobbiest first a vender second in my Mind!!! Chizzle I asked for three got three and it was always three!!!! You Owe WES an apology !!!!!! I contacted A few hobbiest that i knew before they even came in And Chizzle you were "NOT" on that list The few fish that were left WES must have contacted guys he thought might like them AND THIS IS HOW YOU REPAY HIM????? Call him a weasle wong ???? Grow up Dooood!!!And You Darboy you say the fish are like thirty Bucks YA ????? Well Wes had to pay for shipping and An Import Broker to bring them in A flat fee per fish box whatever did you consider that HMMM??????WES never said those fish were Wild caught and yet you want to Hang him wreck his buissness This is a Joke I would say to you folks he Rarely makes a prophet and Probably loses money most of the time !!!! He is one of the Last Venders Standing and yet your willing to treat him like this !!!!!!!If i was Wes I would never Bring in another fish it's just not worth this kind of aggravation so quike to point fingers and so quikley WE When there are no Exotic fish at our disposel WE have had it good maybe to good for to long Very Distasteful i say !!!!!!!!!

 

[fugupuff]

as long as I'm alive, I will defend my position. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but if I'm not and people are just jumping on the bandwagon, I will note each one of you and our future dealings or non dealings will be done accordingly.

As for Nid's previous point of me being at fault for relying on Darboy's "sao francisco" pictures as Identification, here is my logical defense. anyone can challenge me. With the invention of internet, we all use pictures and google to help identify, sell products, market products. If this was 30 years ago, you'd have to just trust my description based on a faxed paper price list. 100 years ago, I would have had to use the old line drawings of cichla occelaris each time to make an identification. What I am saying is that: I never did say my fish were wild, I stated they were cichla sp. in the first line. I gathered they're the same as Darboy's "sao francisco" due to visual observation. If you see the same porsche 911 in China, and then see the same one in US, does it mean that its not possible they're the same car? It could be right? and if my fish are different, then what species is Darboy's fish that he got 5 pcs wild from Brazil? If he knows so much about the international trade of fish, he should first know that they are illegal to export unless captive bred. also you never export just 5 fish...that never happens.

 

[fugupuff]

I have not started any attacks here, yet I get attacked
I've defended my position, yet people cannot seem to understsand
However, I am an existentialist, so it doesn't really matter, nothing is absolute to me
there are different catagories of people, friends, customers, haters, immature people, wannabees
just like in the ocean, sharks, puffers, sardines, flounders, swamp eels, mimic tangs, where do you fall in? Just ask yourself the question, and ask yourself, what did Wes do to me that made me so upset ? Did he rip me off or rob me? Or is it for some people, I want to kill him while the mob scene is hot, maybe I can come up that way. Or I'm just hating...ask yourself...lets take a moment and ask yourself

 

[fugupuff]

bOOsteN aUdI...what did I do to you? Did I take some of your money or do I threaten your well being in anyway? I see you watching...do you feel robbed? I hope all your ventures will succeed

 

[FishNCash]

No seriously. How is the possible hybrid added after the fact? Do you understand what you are saying? It was there all alongapp

yep the word "hybrid" was there when the thread was created. I knew instantly it was farm raise when I saw the word. I am sorry gangster but its your loss this time.

gangster, some of us are on the e-mail list for incoming fish. The excel spread sheet states 25 available and clearly states hybrid so there is no way it was changed after the fact.

hey wes is it possible for you to add me to the email list?





Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[nid]

If you see the same porsche 911 in China, and then see the same one in US, does it mean that its not possible they're the same car? It could be right?

Wes my man, I'm sorry but that's a REAL bad example. For god's sake, they have fake apple stores they look 100% the same over in China, not just products, the whole store. Wish I had pictures. If u saw a 911 in china, its probably fake.

 

[fugupuff]

Wes my man, I'm sorry but that's a REAL bad example. For god's sake, they have fake apple stores they look 100% the same over in China, not just products, the whole store. Wish I had pictures. If u saw a 911 in china, its probably fake.

but at the same time you cannot dispel the possibility. The people in China have huge buying powers. All the local homes here are bought up by the Chinese with cash. Maybe that wasn't the best comparison, but you get what I mean right? Now days, most people google up a picture and for fish that is certainly the case. Want me to open my old Axelrod atlas? They have 5 pictures of different fish all labeled as cichla occelaris and orinocensis.

So I saw this fruit, java apple in Taiwan, and now I see it in the US, could the ones in US be different or fake? or could they be the same? I saw this peacock bass online in the phillipines, and I see it in my tank, can it be the same? Maybe not., who knows

 

[fugupuff]

Wes my man, I'm sorry but that's a REAL bad example. For god's sake, they have fake apple stores they look 100% the same over in China, not just products, the whole store. Wish I had pictures. If u saw a 911 in china, its probably fake.

oh, btw, apple products are made in China, Terry Guo, Foxxcon makes all your iphones, yes, he's worth about 6 billion right now maybe more. So if you see it in China, its probably real, just not labeled and authorized by Apple to be sold.

 

[orinocensis1]

WOW! Now I remember why I left the Peacock bass game, its because of all the DRAMA!

Guys listen. I was in the peacock bass game for almost 10 years and had every species available (except intermedia), went through wild caught, captive breed ect and all I can tell you is that it is HARD to tell the difference. There is no OMG WILD CAUGHT LOOKS X10000 times different then CB different , ok. Ive had wild sao fran azuls mixed in with CB ones from shark aquarium about 4 years ago of so and in the end, I couldnt tell the difference anymore and didnt know which was which. Ive had CB and wild caught monos and they also looked the same.

Now on the subject of "hybrids". Well, most of you guys for some reason think that just because a fish is hybrid, someone HAD to do this in captivity, and that is extreamly FALSE. Hybridizing is very common in the wild and happens ALL the time. Ive seen tons and tons of hybrids, from a xingu and mono in brazil, all the way to a orino and intermedia hybrid. IT HAPPENS. Now some people like pure bass and some like to experement with the hybrids and see what they turn out to be, its depends on your personal tastes and beliefs. So just because Wes brought in a hybrid bass, dont think that it isnt wild because of it being a hybrid. Now he is saying that they never said it was wild or not, thats why he didnt say WILD CAUGHT SAO FRAN. And just my personal opinion, I think that these bass are wild, judging by the name because they only call them "sao fran obviously because of where they were caught."

I mentioned that if these are the same fish as Darboy's that they look to be a orinocensis and Piquiti hybrid because of its orino head sape and gold spangling and azul "5 bars". And don't throw all this BS at me and tell me that its IMPOSSIBLE because orinos are not from the sao fran, well you know what? Fish do swim you know, thats actually all they do, and sometimes they travel to other locations since tons of them branch off into each other, so it is VERY possible.

Last but not least, I want to touch upon the subject of expoting out of brazil, since we all know that brazil still has the ban on exports leaving the country. Now I seen a few people say brazil still has a ban on fish leaving so these can't be wild. Well yes they are ban to leave but this fish hobby is a big business and everyone in south american knows that. So you know what happens? Countries that are close to brazil are going to go there, smuggle the fish out of brazil and export them out of their country. Yes they are very smart like that. The country that takes wild fish out of brazil alot is colombia. So people that recieve wild stuff out of brazil can come from colombia and even peru does the same.

Well, that was just my 2 cents I felt the need to do it since I was one of the many origional guys that was in the cichla game from way back. As for Wes, I never purchased any fish from him and the only reason for that was because of me being on the east coast and I am cheap when it comes to shipping , He ALWAYS brings in top notch fish and you guys should really take his word if he says a fish is wild or not, because we never really will know if it is or not, we all just try to TRUST our sources. I mean Wes could be getting lied to and his exporters could be telling him they are wild and they really are not. not saying he is ofcourse, but just bringing up an example of how we really will never know and just have to trust our sources. And for you guys out there that say your not going to buy from him anymore, well it is your loss because Wes does bring in tons of fish that most people here can not get. Have a nice day everyone