Cichlasoma ornatum???

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dogofwar

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Jan 3, 2006
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Doesn't look like ornatum to me either, but the fish looks to be stressing a bit. I guess I can see a hint of spangling in the fins, but I wouldn't have guessed ornatum at first either. Who can be sure?

One thing is for sure, the word "amazing" gets thrown around too much lately. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder! ; )
 
It would be hard to confuse the fish in the vendor picture with a festae... and that's the closest relative...

http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=928

Diagnosis: exCichlasoma ornatum is distinguished from its closest relative 'Cichlasoma' festae by its coloration and the caudal peduncle which in ornatum is longer than in festae. Further the canine teeth of the lower jaw are closer together than those of the upper jaw, whereas in festae it is just the opposite. Adult specimens of exCichlasoma ornatum are generally more slender than adult festae.
 
cchhcc;4090248; said:
Well, I made this comment on another similar thread about an "undescribed" species.

"Looks like kraussii."
Click to expand...

According to this (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=273) , that fish appears to be Kraussi to me as well:

Diagnosis: The least colorful species of its genus. Caquetaia kraussii can be distinguished from its congeners by the brown/yellow coloration of the body and especially by the large black opercular spot in combination with the blotch on the shoulder (just beneath the onset of the dorsal fin).

It being found in new places, would be described by this:

"Distribution: Originally, Caquetaia kraussii occurred in the Atrato and Magdalena drainages in Colombia and in the Maracaibo system in Venezuela. In recent years it appears to have spread eastward at an enormous pace reaching as far as the Orinoco delta and inhabiting many streams in the Orinoco drainage."

As an aside, anyone who's interested in having access to solid info about cichlids (new world and otherwise) should consider joining the Cichlid Room Companion (http://www.cichlidae.com/docs/membership.php). You get an Ad Konings book worth at least that...and instant access to probably the best and most comprehensive cichlid information in existence...

Matt
 
I'm not familiar with any of these fish enough to say. The fish pictured looks newly caught and very stressed so it is impossible to say for sure. I agree the shape does look like a labridens type but ornatum are sort of shaped like that as well. In tank pics next week will clear it up easily though. Most likely they are ornatum or something closely related. If this batch is coming from Don he did say he was going to be collecting in that area and for those fish coming up soon. That was a few months back though when I got some fish from him.

I highly doubt anyone could confuse fish from Mexico with fish from SA while collecting them so unless there was a wrong picture posted by accident they are probably ornatum or something very similiar.

cchhcc, I agree that the caquetia looks similiar to a kraussii, but I have never seem a kraussii that size colored like that. Granted I have only seem a couple of kraussii in person that size because very few people keep them. Could be that they were collected in a different area then kraussii are supposed to be? If that is the case isn't it better to keep them seperate for the time being until they are either proven to be a different location of kraussi or indeed something new? A collection location when the fish come in can help with this as well. Could just be a new collection point for kraussii or it could be something new. Better to be safe at first then to mix them though. It also should be noted that when I got my fish from Don he had Kraussii on his list, so I'm guessing if these are coming from him he saw something different in them when he collected them or thinks that Kraussii shouldn't be were these are coming from.

Anyway around it I'm excited to see what these fish are when they come in. Those are definately Pellegrini:naughty:!!! If someone can actually get wild Pellegrini I will give them the benifit of the doubt on the others until some settled in pics in tanks are posted.
 
dogofwar;4090257; said:
According to this (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=273) , that fish appears to be Kraussi to me as well:

Diagnosis: The least colorful species of its genus. Caquetaia kraussii can be distinguished from its congeners by the brown/yellow coloration of the body and especially by the large black opercular spot in combination with the blotch on the shoulder (just beneath the onset of the dorsal fin).

It being found in new places, would be described by this:

"Distribution: Originally, Caquetaia kraussii occurred in the Atrato and Magdalena drainages in Colombia and in the Maracaibo system in Venezuela. In recent years it appears to have spread eastward at an enormous pace reaching as far as the Orinoco delta and inhabiting many streams in the Orinoco drainage."

As an aside, anyone who's interested in having access to solid info about cichlids (new world and otherwise) should consider joining the Cichlid Room Companion (http://www.cichlidae.com/docs/membership.php). You get an Ad Konings book worth at least that...and instant access to probably the best and most comprehensive cichlid information in existence...

Matt
Click to expand...

Great info Matt. I was not aware of them spreading.
 
I wasn't either, until I read the info on the Cichlid Room Companion :)

Something that I think is hard to fit into the current cichlid description paradigm is widely distributed fish.

We're used to naming Rift Lake cichlids for every rock in the lake... and we're getting used to naming Crytoheros and the like that are highly variable from stream to stream by the location.

But some fish have relatively wide distributions...and are pretty much the same throughout... and some fish (like it appears this one) are spreading (for whatever natural or man-influenced reasons) into new areas...

Just food for thought...

Matt

jgentry;4090282; said:
Great info Matt. I was not aware of them spreading.
Click to expand...
 
jgentry;4090274; said:
If this batch is coming from Don he did say he was going to be collecting in that area and for those fish coming up soon. That was a few months back though when I got some fish from him.
Click to expand...


Just to be clear, Don uses the same exporter as several other MFK sellers. They collect and he chooses what fish he wants. Some of the pictures he's posted of wild caught _______'s were straight from the importer who sent those pics to other sellers. Nothing special about that. He did indicate he was going to the facility to "hand pick" fish, but that's been done before too.

You are right about the possibility of a photo mix-up. That's happened to Don and Ira before too.
 
The kraussii could be like the La Ceiba freddy situation. Same old fish, new race, new species.....whatever. Still hasn't been "solved" to everyone's satisfaction, but that doesn't keep me from feeding the big beautiful male in my tank!
 
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