Cichlasoma ornatum???

[dogofwar]

About a dozen slides into Michi's pictures are some H. pantostictus...

http://www.sulfide-life.info/mtobler/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=178

Matt

Wondering if the fish being listed here: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324959

...are the same fish that are here (I think sourced from Oliver Lucanus): http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7890&p=46198&hilit=ornatum#p46198

The fish in the MFK thread appears to be Hericthys pantostictus (which is from Mexico) vs. "Cichlasoma" ornatum... which is South American...

Thoughts?

Matt

 

[Reagan]

The kraussii could be like the La Ceiba freddy situation. Same old fish, new race, new species.....whatever. Still hasn't been "solved" to everyone's satisfaction, but that doesn't keep me from feeding the big beautiful male in my tank!

Well said

 

[jgentry]

Just to be clear, Don uses the same exporter as several other MFK sellers. They collect and he chooses what fish he wants. Some of the pictures he's posted of wild caught _______'s were straight from the importer who sent those pics to other sellers. Nothing special about that. He did indicate he was going to the facility to "hand pick" fish, but that's been done before too.

You are right about the possibility of a photo mix-up. That's happened to Don and Ira before too.

From the little bit Don told me that is what I got as well. He is not acutally collecting them. He is going to locations and hand selecting the fish from the collectors so he still has to go by there info as far as collection goes.

 

[jgentry]

I wasn't either, until I read the info on the Cichlid Room Companion

Something that I think is hard to fit into the current cichlid description paradigm is widely distributed fish.

We're used to naming Rift Lake cichlids for every rock in the lake... and we're getting used to naming Crytoheros and the like that are highly variable from stream to stream by the location.

But some fish have relatively wide distributions...and are pretty much the same throughout... and some fish (like it appears this one) are spreading (for whatever natural or man-influenced reasons) into new areas...

Just food for thought...

Matt

This is a very valid point. I'm big into crypto's so I'm used to having collection locations for everything and going off the assumption that a fish is different until proved the same. This is probably backwards thinking for most though.

Stop making me think Matt!!! Your making my head hurt.

 

[gseith]

The fish in question looks to be missing two things to be a Hericthys pantostictus. The pantostictus and labridens have small spots on the face and a scaleless patch behind the pectoral fin. The fish in the picture doesn't have either.

 

[Modest_Man]

Those don't look much like the ornatum I've seen (in person) at several different growth stages. I took the photos Matt linked too as well...Body shape is much closer to festae, ornatum have a bit shorter snout.

I also saw the "undescribed" Caquetia yesterday and it looks like kraussi to me.

 

[ira]

The caquetaia were collected in Rio San Juan Columbia they will be DNA tested shortly and Dr Paul Loiselle will be working to identify them as well. If you want facts about these fish feel free to pm me or call 347-865-1984. Collection in some of these areas has never happened before and even the best in the field are clamoring to get their hands on them.

 

[NorCaliCichlids]

Don told me on the phone that collecting these fish is very dangerous and that when he tried a couple months ago it just wasn't worth the risk of being 'disappeared' by FARC (the columbian drug/rebels) and that he only had a few for his own collection. Maybe he got some more in or another importer got some. Hard to tell from the pic if they are indeed Ornatum. Very stressed out fish. If they are Ornatum I'm sure the price will be ridiculous.

 

[dogofwar]

Is the picture that you posted of the "ornatum" the correct picture?

Has it been positively identified as ornatum?

Matt

The caquetaia were collected in Rio San Juan Columbia they will be DNA tested shortly and Dr Paul Loiselle will be working to identify them as well. If you want facts about these fish feel free to pm me or call 347-865-1984. Collection in some of these areas has never happened before and even the best in the field are clamoring to get their hands on them.

 

[cchhcc]

The caquetaia were collected in Rio San Juan Columbia they will be DNA tested shortly and Dr Paul Loiselle will be working to identify them as well. If you want facts about these fish feel free to pm me or call 347-865-1984. Collection in some of these areas has never happened before and even the best in the field are clamoring to get their hands on them.

Always talking about FACTS (and in bold usually) but never offering any. Just post it here instead of making everyone call or PM you. Why wouldn't you just post it up? Smacks of advertising to me.

DNA testing..... Promised by many, delivered by none.