Close to throwing in the towel...

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
S

Soggy Pockets

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Oct 7, 2008
14
0
0
Sugar Grove, ILlinois
Hi all,

As follow up to the thread started earlier in the week: How important is water flow in a FOWLR...the fish death spiral continues.

Here is a list of what I have lost over the past 2 months. These fish were NOT all added at same time. Most have been replacements for ones that died....

2 - blonde naso tangs (at seperate times). One tang tied while being in the tank for 3 days, the other was in the tank for about one week.
1- crosshatch trigger (this fish was in the store tank for several months as I personally saw the fish). Fish was in the tank for 3 weeks.
1- Square back anthias
6- green chromis. Some died almost immediately, there is 1 fish still alive.
1-Large Achilles tang. This was one of my first fish in the tang. Fish lasted several weeks. The fish did appear to have parasite on it's eye, the fish lived about 4 weeks.
1-Nurse shark (I know, how does a person kill a nurse shark). The store had the sharks for several months, so it was not new. I believe this shark was stung by the lion fish (which died last night), or the scorpion fish - as the shark acted drugged and died within 12 hours. This may have been a case of bad luck.
1- Large lion fish, lasted 4 days. Not sure if tied to the above shark incident.

Here is what is alive (as of now):

2-2 cali round ray pups. These were the first animals in the tank and are doing fantastic.
2- Horseshoe crabs (been in for as long as the rays)
3 - different starfish
Assorted snails and small hermit crabs.

The tank is 240 gal (8'x3'x16"), with a 125 gal sump/fuge. There is a large protein skimmer and UV light on the system as well.

Water runs through a 4 stage RO/DI system...

I have been doing 30 gal water changes very week.

Water param's:

Amonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 7.5-10
Temp: 74-76


Here is some of the input I have received from other hobbyists/store owners:

1. Not enough water flow (hence the earlier thread), solved by adding a Korallia 7 pushing water across the entire tank...actually like this addition even if doesn't do anything.

2. Not enough hinding places for fish. Tank does have 3 seperate islands of live rock where fish can hide...did add a 3" pvc "t" yesterday (soaked in vinegar bath for an hour and then rinsed).

3. Nitrates too high. I have measured several times using Elos test kit as well as seperate fish stores measuring...all with very similar readings..under 10.


The last point is that I am beginning to wonder if the live sand/live rock I bought from an other hobbyist has something in it that is killing the fish. But everytime I throw that out, I go back to the fact that the rays, and inverts live on....

Please, any ideas/suggestions (even if it means to shut down the tank), I am open at this time as I can't stand to kill another animal.

Thanks.

bill.
 
Soggy Pockets;4035449; said:
Hi all,

As follow up to the thread started earlier in the week: How important is water flow in a FOWLR...the fish death spiral continues.

Here is a list of what I have lost over the past 2 months. These fish were NOT all added at same time. Most have been replacements for ones that died....

2 - blonde naso tangs (at seperate times). One tang tied while being in the tank for 3 days, the other was in the tank for about one week.
1- crosshatch trigger (this fish was in the store tank for several months as I personally saw the fish). Fish was in the tank for 3 weeks.
1- Square back anthias
6- green chromis. Some died almost immediately, there is 1 fish still alive.
1-Large Achilles tang. This was one of my first fish in the tang. Fish lasted several weeks. The fish did appear to have parasite on it's eye, the fish lived about 4 weeks.
1-Nurse shark (I know, how does a person kill a nurse shark). The store had the sharks for several months, so it was not new. I believe this shark was stung by the lion fish (which died last night), or the scorpion fish - as the shark acted drugged and died within 12 hours. This may have been a case of bad luck.
1- Large lion fish, lasted 4 days. Not sure if tied to the above shark incident.

Here is what is alive (as of now):

2-2 cali round ray pups. These were the first animals in the tank and are doing fantastic.
2- Horseshoe crabs (been in for as long as the rays)
3 - different starfish
Assorted snails and small hermit crabs.

The tank is 240 gal (8'x3'x16"), with a 125 gal sump/fuge. There is a large protein skimmer and UV light on the system as well.

Water runs through a 4 stage RO/DI system...

I have been doing 30 gal water changes very week.

Water param's:

Amonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 7.5-10
Temp: 74-76


Here is some of the input I have received from other hobbyists/store owners:

1. Not enough water flow (hence the earlier thread), solved by adding a Korallia 7 pushing water across the entire tank...actually like this addition even if doesn't do anything.

2. Not enough hinding places for fish. Tank does have 3 seperate islands of live rock where fish can hide...did add a 3" pvc "t" yesterday (soaked in vinegar bath for an hour and then rinsed).

3. Nitrates too high. I have measured several times using Elos test kit as well as seperate fish stores measuring...all with very similar readings..under 10.


The last point is that I am beginning to wonder if the live sand/live rock I bought from an other hobbyist has something in it that is killing the fish. But everytime I throw that out, I go back to the fact that the rays, and inverts live on....

Please, any ideas/suggestions (even if it means to shut down the tank), I am open at this time as I can't stand to kill another animal.

Thanks.

bill.
Click to expand...

Heh my girlfriends mom had this same problem... buying used live rock from a non reputable source.... saves money but this can happen. Kill the tank man.

Don't give up though. QT your animals if you can, then kill the live rock and live sand. Buy new sand, and begin cycling the live rock after you wash it with freshwater scrubb it and let it dry outside for a bit.

Had this same rediculous problem and finally determined it was the live rock and something terrible with it. We killed everything. Then after cycling the rock and putting everything back together she has not lost a fish since. She now has a clown fish, royal gramma, goby and a stingray.... all in perfect health.


Freshwater dipping your fish before you put them in the new tank with the newly recycled rock is a good idea as well.

Its funny how she had this same problem, those people on craigslist do something to their live rock i swear.
 
Wow! That makes my frustration with saltwater pale by comparison. I have set my loss limit a lot lower for throwing in the towel. Mine is going good at the moment *knocks on wood* Hope yours gets better fast. Good luck!
 
i think this is a problem that goes a lot deeper then buying used live rock. Its hard to say if there is something that is killing your fish from the LR, but i will say this, your rays would not be alive. Those rays are bit more sensitive then even a naso tang. That might also be your problem. Naso's in my profesional opinion should be left for a well established tank. I have seen many small fluctuations cause these guys to go nuts. Is this the problem? IDK but its something to look at. It appears that its all in your stock. Chromis are weird. There hardy but sometimes they just dont last. I feel that this has more to do with the breeder/collector then anything. Nurse shark, leave it in the ocean. Your tank is far to small to house one on top of all the other fish. Achilles tangs, one of the harder ones, again for experienced hobbiest and well established tanks. This may also depend on how they were collected. Anthias, must be fed several times per day while new in your tank. Once they are used to your feeding habbits then you can start to wean them to lower feedings. I know a lot of you are going to flame my response and thats fine. I think you need to relax on adding fish for a while. Focus on what you have, keep doing water changes, and go from there. Nitrates are not that high, but they are up there. For a Fish Only tank i thinkg 10ppm is plenty fine.

I want to know more about your tank. What was the gallons again?

where is your water coming from? is it filtered? by what?

what are you feeding?

how much time before each addition of a new fish?

how old is the setup?

how was it cycle?

How do you acclimate your fish? This is over looked way to much. Drip acclimate everything for several hours if you not already doing it. And yes QT all new arrivals.

I think you may be adding to much to soon. Nurse shark??????? this is a large shark, and is extremely sensetive to water. Nitrates could be the cause this fish's death but who knows.
 
I read your earlier post and the tank is 2 months old. To new of a tank for most of those fish. It takes a SW tank 6-8 months to settle itself out. During that time your parameters will vary depending on when you test them.

If most of these fish were in a LFS for months doing well, it was not the fish, it was the tank was not stable enough for them. Angelfish are famous for this in new tanks. They can not handle the variations in the new tank.

You also had fish that are touchy from the start and most have a hard to adjusting in a mature tank, let alone a new tank. Naso tangs and Achillie Tangs are touchy to start with. Anthias are very touchy to begin with. Let the tank mature for a few months with what you have and you should be fine.
 
Sounds like too much too fast for me too. This stock list is ridiculous. If you didnt want to spend money you wouldnt have bought those animals. Start small. Work big. A nurse shark is not an animal suitable for cycling a tank.
 
Thanks to all for the input. Even with yrs. of experience with salt (have a 180 sps tank running for yrs), I may have made the classical mistake of adding too much too quickly-I have to take the responsibility for that.

What has been frustrating is that the rays (which were supposed to be the most sensitive) have continued to flourish, as have the 3 different star fish.

I did use live rock/sand that came from a system that was running for several yrs-I expected the tank to still cycle but not as if it were a brand new system.

Water param's have stayed constant:
amonia - 0
nitrates - under 10
nitrates - 0
salinity - 1.023/1.024
temp - range of 75-77

Thoughts?
 
if i were you, id leave the tank sit for a while. 2 months or so. Continue to monitor the rays, make sure they continue eating. If any disease or ailment was introduced into the tank, it should hopefully die off in this amount of time. With tangs, you should really consider QT first, as you cannot have skunk cleaners in there lol. this will hopefully help reduce there stress and your's. As I said in my earlier post, relax o n additions and please leave the shark in the ocean. let your tank build its stability and mature and you should be able to start getting your achilles tang and the anthias and stuff that is more sensative. good luck
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom