Cloudy water for 3 months now, cant figure out why?

[Arkangel77]

I am looking for help or ideas. I have a 400G tank with predator fish in it. I set it up in December of last year. It was originally running with two FX5s, two Huge sponge filters and one Ultima 1000. It stayed clear for 3 or 4 months with no issues. Around March I had a green algae bloom. Was my fault because I had the Lights on like 13-14 Hrs a day =). Changed the light cycle and that cleared up. Later on in that Month the tank started getting cloudy. I tried Big water changes, cleaning all the filters and so forth. I have tested the water threw this entire process. Ammonia is zero, PH is always 7.6, Nitrite is always zero, Nitrate is very low - barely on the chart. I recently purchased a Phosphate test kit. The Phosphate levels are bouncing between 4-6 PPM. Last month I removed the two FX5s and added a Second Ultima 1000! I have called the Ultra Violet people to see what they thought and they said my Tank was Not cycled yet.... Also - a month or so ago I started added Nitrifying Bacteria every 2 weeks. I talked to a Local fish shop guy I trust and he thinks maybe while algae bloom??? He says A UV sterilizer might clear it up... I am at a loss. This is a Predator tank. They get chopped fish, shrimp & worms every day and sinking pellets. I have tried to make sure I am not over feeding them. I have also done some extra work around sucking out the poop when I see it, Nothing helps. ALSO - It's a plywood tank with a foam 3D background and Bare Bottom.

I am at a LOSS, PLEASE help if U have an Idea POST it. I had the same fish in a 210 in the past with no issues. when I bumped up to the 400 I added the Ultima and new Full spectrum LED lights.

Please Please Please Help is u can.

Arkangel77


PS - Tank Build Thread
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...-plywood-build-400-gallon-mostly-pics.697145/

 

[Drstrangelove]

Some fish (salmon), and some shellfish (scallops) are very high in phosphates. Diet is a good place to look first.

Or the source water. Even tap water "normally" shouldn't come close to that level, even if it's an additive, but it might vary seasonally. Your water department annual report would be helpful.

 

[Arkangel77]

I have the report in my files. I can go look up the water report. That's a Good Idea. I am feeding Tilapia and Fresh Gulf Shrimp along with Hikari sinking gold pellets.

 

[Backfromthedead]

Its possible your tank is still stabilizing/not completely cycled yet. You mentioned youve changed up feeding routines a couple times? Have you made any large additions to stock during the 3 months or has it been pretty constant? Sometimes changing feeding or stock in a big way can kick off a mini-cycle.

I would just stick to a regimented feeding schedule and a regimented water change routine of twice a week 30-40% changes, regardless of whatever your nitrate readings are. It may just take some time.

Thats all i can think of.

 

[BIG-G]

If you can determine if it's bacterial a UV would clear it.
I do agree with the other post's, if the tank has not cycled fully could be the problem. But, with the time period you are describing and the test readings I'm thinking it should have cycled by now. Unless changing the filtration has set it back a bit.
Adding a UV may be the way to go. I would look at the ones made for pond use for this size tank.

 

[duanes]

I'm with Dr Strangelove on this, about the feeding of certain high phosphate, (and high protein) foods.
It may be, that the tank is not fully cycled (a 400 gal may take months).
But it does sound like a bacterial and/or algal bloom, due to the residue of high protein (oily) food, not able to be removed by normal filtration.
There really isn't any type mechanical filtration, of any kind, able to remove bacteria in the 1 micron or less range.
UV might do it, or protein skimming.
I use protein skimming to remove free floating algae, bacteria, and other dissolved organic carbon.
Below is a video of a fractionator removing those components (as foam) on a small pond similar in size to your tank.
koi pond fractionation
One caveat, fractionation takes a lot of flow (a powerful pump) to create enough agitation to disrupt the air water interface in fresh water. So buying a wimpy fractionator that will easily work on a salt water tank, won't do for fresh.
A UV sterilizer may be your preferred option, but because of your tank size, don't wimp out on it.

 

[Arkangel77]

Its possible your tank is still stabilizing/not completely cycled yet. You mentioned youve changed up feeding routines a couple times? Have you made any large additions to stock during the 3 months or has it been pretty constant? Sometimes changing feeding or stock in a big way can kick off a mini-cycle.

I would just stick to a regimented feeding schedule and a regimented water change routine of twice a week 30-40% changes, regardless of whatever your nitrate readings are. It may just take some time.

Thats all i can think of.

I have not changed the stocking load much if at all over the last several Months.

My feeding regiment is consistent. I have just tried to make sure I dont over feed at all, less scraps in the water ya know.

As far as not cycled, I just cant imagine that's the case. The two FX5s & two Sponge filters I started the tank with were fully cycled / seeded when the tank started. Again, this tank has bin setup since December.

If you can determine if it's bacterial a UV would clear it.
I do agree with the other post's, if the tank has not cycled fully could be the problem. But, with the time period you are describing and the test readings I'm thinking it should have cycled by now. Unless changing the filtration has set it back a bit.
Adding a UV may be the way to go. I would look at the ones made for pond use for this size tank.

I am leaning towards a UV - Just not sure which is why I am asking you guys Opinions. =)

I'm with Dr Strangelove on this, about the feeding of certain high phosphate, (and high protein) foods.
It may be, that the tank is not fully cycled (a 400 gal may take months).
But it does sound like a bacterial and/or algal bloom, due to the residue of high protein (oily) food, not able to be removed by normal filtration.
There really isn't any type mechanical filtration, of any kind, able to remove bacteria in the 1 micron or less range.
UV might do it, or protein skimming.
I use protein skimming to remove free floating algae, bacteria, and other dissolved organic carbon.
Below is a video of a fractionator removing those components (as foam) on a small pond similar in size to your tank.
koi pond fractionation
One caveat, fractionation takes a lot of flow (a powerful pump) to create enough agitation to disrupt the air water interface in fresh water. So buying a wimpy fractionator that will easily work on a salt water tank, won't do for fresh.
A UV sterilizer may be your preferred option, but because of your tank size, don't wimp out on it.

Protein skimmer is interesting but this tank is in my office and not sure It would work for me.


At the end of the day I am leaning towards a UV, My buddy recommended a 40 watt Danner Supreme. Not sure if that's a good one or not? I also have a 3 chamber water filter that I purchased with the intention of setting up a constant drip water change system. That may help a little also.

GUYS - THANK YOU for the replies and the Input! I really appreciate the help!

 

[fishbum]

I'd put one of the canisters back on and fill it with nothing but floss. I doubt its a bacterial or algae bloom and is likely suspended particles in the water from the fish or the food. That's where I'd start from at this point. If that doesn't help, trying a UV would be the next thing.

 

[Arkangel77]

I'd put one of the canisters back on and fill it with nothing but floss. I doubt its a bacterial or algae bloom and is likely suspended particles in the water from the fish or the food. That's where I'd start from at this point. If that doesn't help, trying a UV would be the next thing.

This was - my 1st plan. I may do that. (Just recently a Lot of Guys bin saying to try the UV) I have given it months and it seems like something needs to be done, Its not fixing itself.

 

[fishbum]

To me it doesn't sound like something a UV would help with. If you still have the canisters then getting a big bag of pillowing stuffing would only cost around $10 and you'd know if it helped in a couple weeks at the most was my thought. A UV would be the next thing I'd try if that didn't help and would cost some $ if you don't already have one.