Clown loach growth thread.

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Potamotrygon
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Figured I'd start an updated thread on this since CL growth is so frequently queried on. CL have always been a difficult fish for me for whatever reason and so I've pretty much focused all of my efforts on keeping my current group happy and healthy lately. As any loach keeper knows they are intensely hard to photo so most of what you'll get is swarming loach ball pictures.

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I got a group of 16 little beauties about 3 months ago from a little fish shop in Richmond, VA. Lost one in quarantine from whatever intestinal issue and several more showed symptoms. I had tried salt and heat initially but after the one died I went to meds. The remaining 15 seem to be healthy after 4 rounds treating the whole tank with prazipro. From now on, I will probably just begin treating loaches for parasites with prazipro right out of the gate.

They are staying in a 7' 210g tank with pictus cats, lampeye tetras, and bala sharks atm.
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By my eye, they have all reached a median SL of around 3" (some slightly bigger some smaller) as of now and all have a somewhat rounded healthy profile. I think this'll be a good group to watch and keep track of for a better idea of baseline CL growth. I feed twice a day with two "finger-pinches" of these 3 feeds and am unlikely to change. The tank is kept at 82-85F and I change 50-75% water weekly right now, will ramp up as fish pick up size.
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They do have a "queen". She is hard to photo but pretty clearly apparent when you're watching the group. Ime it's usually the fattest loach with its colors noticeably washed that's giving all the orders.
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That's it for now. I'll update every couple of months hopefully and fingers crossed at least some of these will be monsters one day. Thanks for reading.
 
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esoxlucius

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Nice thread. Having clowns myself I look forward to updates to see how yours progress. I have eleven. An original group of five from 2015, and then I added another group of six in 2019.

If the rate of growth in yours is anything like mine, then you can expect their growth rates to be all over the place. The females grow faster, and wayyy fatter, and the males are slower growing, even to the point where a couple haven't put much size on at all! Runts maybe, who knows.

All the fish started off as the usual scrawny inch and a half or so but now my biggest female is nudging 7" maybe, and I still have males that are barely 3". A couple of females from the second batch have even overtaken the males from the first group.
 

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Potamotrygon
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Nice thread. Having clowns myself I look forward to updates to see how yours progress. I have eleven. An original group of five from 2015, and then I added another group of six in 2019.

If the rate of growth in yours is anything like mine, then you can expect their growth rates to be all over the place. The females grow faster, and wayyy fatter, and the males are slower growing, even to the point where a couple haven't put much size on at all! Runts maybe, who knows.

All the fish started off as the usual scrawny inch and a half or so but now my biggest female is nudging 7" maybe, and I still have males that are barely 3". A couple of females from the second batch have even overtaken the males from the first group.
Interesting. There are definitely a few beefing up which I figure are the females, but I believe they have all kept up with each other for the most part. The ones that are are lagging just a bit were the ones obviously afflicted with whatever disease or parasite they were fighting in quarantine. It's getting harder to tell them apart since they are well now-- they all have the EXACT same stripe pattern and proportions.
 

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Potamotrygon
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Slightly fatter loaches now, the queen is the only one making noticeable strides. Apologies for the quality, I'm gonna try and break out the dslr for the next update so I can actually get some focused shots.
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This little guy looks like he's gonna pull through. The cranial bone is finally starting to blend in and he has a bit of a tummy.
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This was a loach that fared poorly in the initial months. At first glance, he seemed to be fine and feeding, but if observed more closely I could see that he was being knocked around by the others at feeding time, was having trouble swallowing small pellets, and overall just seemed weaker. Now he roots around and mixes it up with the best of em.
 

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Potamotrygon
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As promised, bimonthly update:

Its odd, the skinny runt loach started to deteriorate again after my last update. But now seems to be bouncing back again. The difference was imo literally switching from NLS probiotic pellet(very small) to the standard NLS tropical pellet (small). Once i brought back the probiotic he perked up again. I think the very small pellets are the only ones he can actually swallow, or maybe theres really something to the probiotic blend. I cant help but think he has permanent digestive tract problems due to whatever illness/parasite.
 
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FJB

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[Without meaning to derail your thread]
Would you say that your little runt loach has/had what people refer as clown loach "skinny disease"?
Or, do you think it is something else, including illness/parasite or combination? (and which). Am I correct in understanding from your observations that it has not been contagious to other individuals in the tank?
I ask because I have currently 3 ~2+ inch clown loaches in QT. All arrived together with a few black neons, some Otos and an unusual Cory (probably C. napoensis), and were intended to eventually go to different tanks.
The 3 loaches arrived in seemingly OK condition, but after a while, one started to lose weight and not growing and it is now extremely skinny and smaller than the other 2, which look great! All other fish in the tank look great as well. The skinny loach does eat but it appears very weak. I did treat the entire tank separately with Prazi-Pro, and with Metro-flakes, thinking the problem was internal parasites and or flukes. It did not harm anybody but it did not solve the issue with the loach.
They have been ~4 months in the QT tank, because seeing its deterioration, I don't want to move anybody from there to other tanks. I wonder if there is hope for that loach, whether it is contagious (has not been so far), or whether I should just put the little thing down. And then I wonder whether it is safe to eventually introduce any of these fish to other tanks. I am reluctant until I know better.
Yes, I know loaches like to be in larger groups. However, under current circumstances, introducing more fish is not a good idea.
I appreciate any suggestions from you or from others. Thanks in advance!
 
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RD.

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From the sticky at the top of this page. Just reposting my comment in that discussion in case you missed it.

Wow yeah, not looking good. Have you had this loach long? Has this loach or the others been dewormed with Prazi, or Levamisole? Skinny disease is a symptom, not a disease. Your fish could have worms, could have Spironucleus aka Hexamita, it could even be Cryptobia iulbilans, or a form of mycobacterium. Wasting of a fish is not always caused by the same thing. I would personally remove that fish, treat in qt, continue to feed hex shield for a few days to the main tank, and then watch the others very closely. If you can get your hands on some dimtetridazole I would use that to treat the sick fish. Of course the fish in the main tank may also be infected now as they have been exposed to whatever the sick loach has.
 

Backfromthedead

Potamotrygon
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[Without meaning to derail your thread]
Would you say that your little runt loach has/had what people refer as clown loach "skinny disease"?
Or, do you think it is something else, including illness/parasite or combination? (and which). Am I correct in understanding from your observations that it has not been contagious to other individuals in the tank?
I ask because I have currently 3 ~2+ inch clown loaches in QT. All arrived together with a few black neons, some Otos and an unusual Cory (probably C. napoensis), and were intended to eventually go to different tanks.
The 3 loaches arrived in seemingly OK condition, but after a while, one started to lose weight and not growing and it is now extremely skinny and smaller than the other 2, which look great! All other fish in the tank look great as well. The skinny loach does eat but it appears very weak. I did treat the entire tank separately with Prazi-Pro, and with Metro-flakes, thinking the problem was internal parasites and or flukes. It did not harm anybody but it did not solve the issue with the loach.
They have been ~4 months in the QT tank, because seeing its deterioration, I don't want to move anybody from there to other tanks. I wonder if there is hope for that loach, whether it is contagious (has not been so far), or whether I should just put the little thing down. And then I wonder whether it is safe to eventually introduce any of these fish to other tanks. I am reluctant until I know better.
Yes, I know loaches like to be in larger groups. However, under current circumstances, introducing more fish is not a good idea.
I appreciate any suggestions from you or from others. Thanks in advance!
Yes that is in line with what i believe is happening. Heres my take on the so called skinny disease: its my opinion and many others in the hobby that nearly all of the WC clown loaches brought into the hobby are infected with whatever parasite/pathogen causes the wasting symptons and general weakness. I believe that left untreated, it is entirely up to the individual fish's immunological response as to whether they will perish or eventually overcome and rid themselves of it. I suspect in natural environments there is a similar attrition rate to what we see in untreated groups of loaches in our aquariums--the affected loaches that cannot beat it simply die or are easy pickings for predators due to their slower/weaker nature.

Like i stated earlier, i also believe that since wild loaches are apparently all infected in an early stage, the illness may perhaps permanently affect their digestive tracts while theyre developing. So even if treated and rid of the disease, they will still perhaps show the skinny disease symptoms for a long time or even lifetime, never reaching their full potential simply because they can not properly feed.

For all of my theoretical babbling to work, that would mean that whatever pathogen/parasite is causing it must be an obligate clown loach specialist, or perhaps botia specialist at best. Which in turn leads me to believe this is a problem clown loaches have been fighting and evolving with for some time. I do not believe the specific clown loach skinny disease spreads to other types of fish but similar diseases are prevalent amongst other common fish in the hobby, obvious example being neon tetra disease.

Again, this is all just my subjective opinion, and im sure people with more experience and academic knowledge could correct or better explain it.
 
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