COLLUMNARIS / DUCK LIPS DISEASE

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After some research, I found for the longest time, Columnaris was known as "live bearer" disease and often presented different symptoms than the acute duck lips form.
Why the sudden surge in cichlids at this time?
Is it because the trend to keep cichlids at warmer temps to increase growth?
Is it the increase in antibiotic use the has produced a "super" form of Columnaris?
Is it because the hybridization craze is creating cichlids with big bumps, but weak immune systems?
All of the above?
E coli 157 seems to be the result of cattle being fed an unnatural diet, corn, which produced infection, resulting in overuse of antibiotics, producing antibiotic resistant bacteria..Ecoli157.
Just food for thought.
 
That is what i am looking for Duanes, questions and debate about this...

As you, i have never ever seen it before in our kind of fish...
 
Everything you stated above makes sense. I wouldn't doubt any or all of those things would have an effect in the sudden rise of occurance being seen.
 
There is another malady that is apparently common with Angels called lip fibroma, although not exclusive to them. I have been researching the topic recently since I had a large male P. melanurum, that showed duck lips symptoms (which was cured), later end up with large fleshy growths on his lips. He has been like this for at least 8 months now with no change. It is apparently viral in nature and there is really no cure, other than surgical removal (check youtube). He can eat well enough despite the growths and seems to be doing well considering.
I have had several fish come down with duck lips (Green Terror for one) and despite efforts to save them, most often met with failure (death). Lately I have managed to cure three cases (2 'melanurus and 1 'sp. Coatzacoalcos) using a combination of kanamycin and furan-2 along with dropping the water temperature to the mid-70s (thanks @duanes). Some secondary issues have responded to metronidazole. Why it's appearing more frequently now (never saw it before about 5 years ago in over 50 years of cichlid keeping) I have no clue. Stress from overcrowding and poor water quality? Higher temperatures? Maybe. Just another perspective.
 
I think that temps plays a role in this kind of developments...we just ight be maintaining them warmer than needed, for starters

Wonder what our asian friends, and south american ones, who need no heaters, would say about the temp they usually have their fish.

In Portugal i am about to decide to cut off heaters from May to October....our summers are above 40 celsius. Now, in February, i am nearing 20 C's...

Fish without heaters, at home, are at 24 c s....
 
Just a quick update.
my swollen underlip Midas are in cold water for the 4 th day. Only added salt and epsom.

Behaviour completely normal, and lively.

Do a small water change out of the hose each day.
 
I don't believe that there's any real mystery at play here. As previously stated part of the problem with this particular bacterial disease is that there appears to be a number of different strains, and like many bacterial strains they tend to mutate when the opportunity presents itself.

On that note, read the info in the following link.
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/antibiotic-resistance-mutation-rates-and-mrsa-28360

Now factor in what has taken place in the aquatic trade over the past 10-15 years, starting around the time that Al Gore invented the internet. Not only are we seeing a lot more fish from areas where super intensive farm practices are in use, but also where these same commercial farms are known for their use of antibiotics, steroids, hormones, and a plethora of other drugs that would never be allowed in fish destined for human consumption. (in America)

The problem is that some of these bacteria are known to evolve very quickly, and many strains have over time become resistant to traditional drugs. It is for this reason that commercial aquaculture circles are now seeking alternative routes to treating fish pathogens via more natural methods, but the reality is they are now only doing so due to their own large scale & long term abuse of medications such as antibiotics.

Today every man & his dog has become an importer of fish, and just like the person that just flew in from SE Asia carrying a new strain of influenza, some of these imported farm fish are carrying their own viral & bacterial mutations when they arrive here.

I'm guessing that most people on MFK have never seen or experienced first hand pathogenic bacteria such as Aeromonas sp. and Psuedomonas sp in their tanks, yet these are very common bacteria on aquatic farms. One farmer that I know in south Florida had to drain every pond & shut his entire operation down for 3-4 months when he couldn't eradicate these pathogens from his fish farm - not even with several rounds of antibiotics. This was 25 yrs ago!


Flexibacter columnaris is not a new bug, it's been around for as far back as I can remember - the only difference is that now it is beginning to show up in species where in the past it was seldom seen, and some of today's strains appear to be very deadly, and may not respond to the traditional treatments of the past.
 
I agree wholeheartedly (although I think Al Gore is insignificant, unless he's the one who invented FHs).
Back when Flexibactor was known as "livebearer" disease, they were some of the the most line-bred/hybridized fish, and cichlids weren't(other than angels and discus).
This is why I theorize that the need to over medicate this proliferation of line mass produced/hybrid/weakened immune system cichlids such as EBJDs and FHs have exacerbated this disease.
And the super resistant bacteria has spread to to normally unaffected species .
 
I doubt that it has anything to do with EBJD, FH's, or any other specific species. I think that it's more of a BIG picture scenario. If I was to pick on one particular species, I'd be more inclined to single out some of the sickly line bred Asian designer discus strains out there, which came many years before FH's, or EBJD's. Any way that you slice it, these pathogens eventually found their way into North American fish farms, and into some of our tanks.

PS. it wouldn't surprise me if Al Gore not only invented the internet, but also was the original creator of flowerhorns. :D
 
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I agree wit Neill ( could care less about Al Gore and his carbon print in our world :) ).

We are experiencing, finnally, in our home aquaria, the results of the mills that have been developing in the last decades.

It has come to us, now...
 
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