Controversial Topic

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Totally agree up to the inbreeding comment.

I always get a laugh out of the constant wailing about inbreeding that is said to cause weaker, genetically-inferior and more-disease-prone fish.


Asian breeders have completely ruined the Silver Arowana with inbreeding resulting in a eye droop issue that won't go away until the greedy bastards that intentionally breed defective stock go away. And on that note I believe my Danners may have just popped a seam.
 
A world famous salamander?
Last Wednesday my wife and I were hiking the Big Creek Trail in the Smokies and came to the Midnight Hole, a deep pool at the base of a small waterfall, and seeing some trout swimming there I thought to toss them some food just for fun. After exploring some nearby duff and finding nothing I began to flip over some rocks, just down stream, looking for aquatic critters. There I found none but salamanders. I like trout, but the salamanders were more awesome. I know the trout would have enjoyed the snack, but I just couldn’t.
However… I did have a few thoughts of how nice they would look at home.
Wild caught. It wasn’t how highly illegal, nor the practical impossibility, but rather the fact that I simply was not prepared to meet the difficulties of keeping a salamander exhibit at home.
The salamander in question was in no way endangered, nor was there any great immorality, it was just not fair to the creature given its meager chance for survival in my care.
So, all I brought home was a few pictures.
I feel that the question of wild caught versus captive breed is deeper than it might seem.
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This topic is a good one to meditate on. I was reminded of a dissertation presented by Matthew Acre concerning the Blue Sucker and its place in the major rivers of North America. The population of Blue Suckers is not related to the aquarium hobby but to the construction of dams.

Acre, Matthew Dissertation Defense: Blue Sucker - YouTube

Given that Brasil has been busy building dams in the Amazon, it may well be that at least some species will go into decline and eventual extinction irrespective to their collection for the aquarium hobby. Thus while it is good to be conservative relative to the hobby's impact on the wild populations, it should also be considered that participation in the collection of wild fish may also have a positive effect. It is unfortunate that many species lost to dams are monster in size, like the Blue Sucker. Monsterfishkeepers may consider their pull towards keeping a desired species around long term by participation in causing awareness, giving reason for concern, and being selective when purchasing wild caught fish.
 
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I'm into both tropical fish and herps. The demand for new morphs or strains is big in both hobbies. This has resulted in some amazingly colorful animals. Better than the wild strains? Well, that is another controversial topic. I don't want to get started on the practice of creating deformed animals for profit, which seems to be more prevalent in fish than reptiles. Without a doubt, captive breeding creates a genetic bottleneck, intentionally in the case of trying to fix a desired new trait, but unavoidably in all cases. If the concern is preservation of a wild species, then breeding programs with wild-caught stock and frequent introduction of fresh genetic material is a must to preserve the species in its wild form. On the other hand, if the intent is just to provide colorful pets, then selective breeding is where its at.

I confess to wanting to keep fish and herps mainly for their color, shape, interesting behavior, etc. In other words, although some of my fish reproduce, I keep them mainly as pets and display animals. Most of the fish and all of the herps I keep are captive bred. Does that mean I have earned the right to "look down" on other hobbyists who choose wild caught animals? As others above have observed, rarity and security of the species in the wild is the main factor. There are people who would pay any price to buy an endangered species just to be able to say they own it-that is unconscionable and defines selfishness. On the contrary, in some cases a dedicated aquarist or reptile keeper maintains and breeds a species that may be drab in color, mundane in behavior or otherwise unremarkable, but is rare and needs protection; their breeding efforts are laudable and may well help save a rare species. They might well look down on me!

As previously stated, many more fish are rare because they taste good or had the misfortune to live in a habitat that people modified or polluted than became rare due to over-collection for the aquarium hobby.
 
Just to clarify on my point, my statement of wild vs captive health was more targeted at line bred morphs like fancy guppies, electric blue dempseys, etc....I do think you need to add genetic diversity from time to time though, whether from different captive lines or added wild.

Totally agree up to the inbreeding comment...Asian breeders have completely ruined the Silver Arowana with inbreeding resulting in a eye droop issue that won't go away until the greedy bastards that intentionally breed defective stock go away. And on that note I believe my Danners may have just popped a seam.

I didn't mean to imply that inbreeding or otherwise poorly-thought-out practices aren't harmful; they surely are, and that example of Silver Arowana is a perfect example. Thanks for posting that, I was blissfully unaware of it.

My point was rather that every Tom, Dick and Harry who can't keep a pair of guppies alive for more than a week seems to enjoy shrilling about "poor genetics" as an excuse for his/her ills. No question that bad breeding is a major problem, but it's not always or even usually the root cause of most of our problems.

Danners aren't inbred; they're just overhyped and silly. They're the Flowerhorns of the boot world. :)


A world famous salamander?...I feel that the question of wild caught versus captive breed is deeper than it might seem.

Bravo! I wish that more people would choose their actions based not only upon hard science but also by considering the morality of them. Can I keep this critter alive and healthy? If that's not likely...should I even try?

Has anyone noticed how often we read and hear about "doing" this or that or the other fish or fish habitat? An aquarist has a spare tank...or goldfish bowl...or brandy snifter...and they're not sure if they should "do" a betta or some shrimp or a colony of shell-dwellers or whatever? They don't keep or maintain or raise the fish in question...they do them, much like my wife will do a new colour during her endless repainting and redecorating. I've always thought there was something vaguely Freudian about that term...


This topic is a good one to meditate on. I was reminded of a dissertation presented by Matthew Acre concerning the Blue Sucker and its place in the major rivers of North America. The population of Blue Suckers is not related to the aquarium hobby but to the construction of dams.

Acre, Matthew Dissertation Defense: Blue Sucker - YouTube

Thanks for posting this; I'm embarrassed to admit that although they are practically in my backyard, I've never even heard of these fish.


There are people who would pay any price to buy an endangered species just to be able to say they own it-that is unconscionable and defines selfishness. On the contrary, in some cases a dedicated aquarist or reptile keeper maintains and breeds a species that may be drab in color, mundane in behavior or otherwise unremarkable, but is rare and needs protection; their breeding efforts are laudable and may well help save a rare species...As previously stated, many more fish are rare because they taste good or had the misfortune to live in a habitat that people modified or polluted than became rare due to over-collection for the aquarium hobby.

Good point, and well stated. The strident protestations of anti-hunters, anti-fishermen, anti-aquarium-keepers...most anti's, in fact...are all intended to make it sound as though hunting, fishing, aquarium-keeping et al are the principle danger faced by the animals concerned. This is virtually never the case; habitat destruction, pollution, development, invasive species...these are almost always the major perils, but of course the anti's can't trumpet that because then the problem would be their fault as much as anyone else's. Much more satisfying to take the moral high ground and snipe at those on the lower slopes from a position of safety.
 
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