Convince me to stay fresh water on my 400g

[Gourami Swami]

If you were going to go for a reef, I'd say do it. Could be an amazing 400gallon reef. THat would be at least 10x more expensive than freshwater however.
If you are debating between FOWLR and freshwater... i'd go fresh. Like you say yourself, non-reef marine tanks are not nearly as good looking as displays. You could do much more with the aquascape if you went fresh. Personally I would make it an amazon/SA theme, pretty easy to do and would look great.

 

[h0ckeyfreek20]

Funny seeing this thread. I posted one recently on R2R asking them to convince me to come back to saltwater. I learned a lot from my last venture into it and I'm looking forward to setting up a 210 FOWLR sometime next year.

Regular water changes aren't as large or frequent. If you have good water movement (which is vital) vacuuming the sand can be all but eliminated. Bad hitchhikers on live rock isn't as common as you may think. If you're really concerned about it, start with dry rock and cure it yourself. It's also a lot cheaper. I picked up 300 lbs on Craigslist for just over $200.

I would have serious water movement. I don't know how I'd keep the sand from moving. maybe bare bottom?
Good idea about the cured live rock. I plan on taking it very slowly anyway so bacteria will have plenty of time to establish. getting all equipment, test kits, and supplements in order. then adding water and live rock / sand / good cleanup crew. then a few corals and hermit crabs. and if everything is still in order, finally fish.

Pros for Freshwater: It's freshwater.

Cons for non freshwater: It's not freshwater.

haha I don't get it?
I love fresh water and its simplicity. But even my last fw Ray tank can't compare to a few corals and tangs. Plus my ray tank was practically over-stocked with just 4 rays and an Aro. Felt bad watching 2' disc rays trying to move around in a 3' wide tank ...

If you don't want to do water changes often then I'd understock the tank. Understocked tanks can go longer between water changes and require less water changed as everyone know.

That's what i was thinking. Go very heavy on filtration and protein skimmers. Lightly stock the tank. and Id mainly just have to do water 'Top offs' from evaporation. Which wouldn't cost me anything because salt doesn't evaporate.

If you were going to go for a reef, I'd say do it. Could be an amazing 400gallon reef. THat would be at least 10x more expensive than freshwater however.
If you are debating between FOWLR and freshwater... i'd go fresh. Like you say yourself, non-reef marine tanks are not nearly as good looking as displays. You could do much more with the aquascape if you went fresh. Personally I would make it an amazon/SA theme, pretty easy to do and would look great.

Im willing to spend a few bucks, but it won't be a full blown reef tank. Only going for hardy corals and a few fish. I know initial cost of equipment, salt, supplements will not be cheap. But once the tank is cycling i plan on taking it very slow. And filtration will be a 150g rubbermaid sump and a 300g rubbermaid sump. UVs, Protein skimmers, etc...

This may be a stupid question but will a fluidized bed work with salt water? I run a pond air pump into my k1 media. Will this still work or will I 'over foam' from the finer bubbles created by higher surface tension of salt water (almost like a protein skimmer)?

 

[krichardson]

Well,one thing that caused me to eventually shut down my saltwater tank was the money that was wasted on salt mix every time I did a water change.

 

[PYRU]

This is easy. Pull 10k out of the bank. Go outside light it fire....and that's being optimistic

 

[FLA]

I don't see anyone really selling freshwater here. Whenever I feel I am bored with fresh I realize I am limiting my self too much. 400 gallons is a great tank. To be fair it would be an amazing reef tank as well.

A breeding pair of large cichlids like Argenteus, or Pearsei would be a lot of fun in that tank. You would never hurt for entertainment. Some large dithers like BA tetras, red hooks, or even a large school of medium size tetras like Colombian red and blues would be great. If you don't mind crossing borders in the tank large barbs work well mascara barbs, rohani barbs, or red panda barbs all would look good with that. If you want to keep a group of cichilds then panda uaru would be great in there as well.

If you want a more predatory tank you can go with large knives, Datnoids, or a bichir community. Don't rule out a large planted tank withe more peaceful inhabitants. Big mormyrids probably wouldn't disturb the plants. African arowana is another great fish. It might be a little tight in there but it will take a long time before it grows quite that large.

Tanganyikans are another option. A huge school of Cyps, a group of mustache cats, some shell dwellers and julidochromis would look great. Maybe try some ellipsifer eels. Or you can go for the more standard fish of Tanganyika like fronts, tropheus, and opthalmotilapia. I think your tank is a little small for them but boulengerochromis microlepis are cool too.

I will always love archers. A huge school of toxotes blythii in there would be awesome. The won't bother short plants and the bottom is free for whatever you want. I recommend a large school of burmese botias and a school of lake inle danios.

The recommendation of native fish isn't a bad one either. I think a native biotope following some of the Florida freshwater springs or spring discharges would be beautiful. Google pictures of Ginnie, Poe, Manatee, or Silver Glen Springs. You would make some fake cypress knees, use limerock and a sand bottom. Then plant some jungle vallisnaria, keep a large school of small shiners (blue nose are the best, can be legally acquired outside of Florida from Louisiana). Have a bull head catfish or two and a breeding pair of shell crackers, or any other panfish you like. Maybe even try to keep some hogchokers, or anguilla eels.

At the end of the day it is your tank. Whatever you do enjoy it. I can't deny it would be a nice reef tank as well.

 

[BugFreak72]

A coworker of mine went saltwater but I can't say I would ever do it. While their tank is wonderful to look at the expense alone keeps me away. Everything from lights to water to little pieces are so much more expensive in saltwater. The water movement system alone was more than all my filtration together. Just recently they spent $40 on a small frag only to see it eaten by another coral they had a few days later. They are ridiculously careful with the tank and maintain it to a point of silly but can't keep the ecosystem going by itself no matter what.

I would much rather have a nice freshwater tank that can maintain itself with as little human interference as possible. A much more natural state for the fish imo.

 

[CichlidKeeper01]

What kind of fish were you thinking? A 400 would be a good grouper tank. Saltwater is a lot more tedious then fresh, things have to be maintained or stuff is going to die. I end up spending more time on my 30 gal salt and my 10 gal salt then on my 125 gal and 20 long freshwater. A 400 would be cool for gar too.

 

[Warborg]

haha I don't get it?
I love fresh water and its simplicity. But even my last fw Ray tank can't compare to a few corals and tangs. Plus my ray tank was practically over-stocked with just 4 rays and an Aro. Felt bad watching 2' disc rays trying to move around in a 3' wide tank ...

I was trying to sell freshwater.

In my opinion saltwater tanks look dirtier, harder to take care of, fish die easier, cost more, more work to be done.

 

[Supergeorge123]

You could go saltwater or you could save a few dollars and buy a new Corvette instead.

 

[h0ckeyfreek20]

Dang you guys are good.

Well,one thing that caused me to eventually shut down my saltwater tank was the money that was wasted on salt mix every time I did a water change.

This is very true. But water changes wouldn't be nearly as frequent as fresh, no?

This is easy. Pull 10k out of the bank. Go outside light it fire....and that's being optimistic

hahaha it sounds like buying a boat, no thanks!

I don't see anyone really selling freshwater here. Whenever I feel I am bored with fresh I realize I am limiting my self too much. 400 gallons is a great tank. To be fair it would be an amazing reef tank as well.

A breeding pair of large cichlids like Argenteus, or Pearsei would be a lot of fun in that tank. You would never hurt for entertainment. Some large dithers like BA tetras, red hooks, or even a large school of medium size tetras like Colombian red and blues would be great. If you don't mind crossing borders in the tank large barbs work well mascara barbs, rohani barbs, or red panda barbs all would look good with that. If you want to keep a group of cichilds then panda uaru would be great in there as well.

If you want a more predatory tank you can go with large knives, Datnoids, or a bichir community. Don't rule out a large planted tank withe more peaceful inhabitants. Big mormyrids probably wouldn't disturb the plants. African arowana is another great fish. It might be a little tight in there but it will take a long time before it grows quite that large.

Tanganyikans are another option. A huge school of Cyps, a group of mustache cats, some shell dwellers and julidochromis would look great. Maybe try some ellipsifer eels. Or you can go for the more standard fish of Tanganyika like fronts, tropheus, and opthalmotilapia. I think your tank is a little small for them but boulengerochromis microlepis are cool too.

I will always love archers. A huge school of toxotes blythii in there would be awesome. The won't bother short plants and the bottom is free for whatever you want. I recommend a large school of burmese botias and a school of lake inle danios.

The recommendation of native fish isn't a bad one either. I think a native biotope following some of the Florida freshwater springs or spring discharges would be beautiful. Google pictures of Ginnie, Poe, Manatee, or Silver Glen Springs. You would make some fake cypress knees, use limerock and a sand bottom. Then plant some jungle vallisnaria, keep a large school of small shiners (blue nose are the best, can be legally acquired outside of Florida from Louisiana). Have a bull head catfish or two and a breeding pair of shell crackers, or any other panfish you like. Maybe even try to keep some hogchokers, or anguilla eels.

At the end of the day it is your tank. Whatever you do enjoy it. I can't deny it would be a nice reef tank as well.

Good recommendations. I have had a few of those combos are they were very entertaining

A coworker of mine went saltwater but I can't say I would ever do it. While their tank is wonderful to look at the expense alone keeps me away. Everything from lights to water to little pieces are so much more expensive in saltwater. The water movement system alone was more than all my filtration together. Just recently they spent $40 on a small frag only to see it eaten by another coral they had a few days later. They are ridiculously careful with the tank and maintain it to a point of silly but can't keep the ecosystem going by itself no matter what.

I would much rather have a nice freshwater tank that can maintain itself with as little human interference as possible. A much more natural state for the fish imo.

Thats scary. Creating A salt water ecosystem seems to work out for some people and not for others. I agree with less maintenance for sure! +1 for fresh water haha

What kind of fish were you thinking? A 400 would be a good grouper tank. Saltwater is a lot more tedious then fresh, things have to be maintained or stuff is going to die. I end up spending more time on my 30 gal salt and my 10 gal salt then on my 125 gal and 20 long freshwater. A 400 would be cool for gar too.

Was thinking smaller reef safe fish. so no grouper haha. I hate seeing fish cramped. Sold my albino clown knife for that reason, and my Aro is almost getting too large for the tank. Why do the smaller salt tanks need more time than the bigger fresh tanks?

I was trying to sell freshwater.

In my opinion saltwater tanks look dirtier, harder to take care of, fish die easier, cost more, more work to be done.

That sounds terrible. why would anyone even keep salt water? i figured once everything was established, it'd be solid. Guess its more complicated than that haha