Copper and salt

[ryansmith83]

I currently have some fish in quarantine with heat and salt at a dosage to cure any potential ich they may have brought with them (2 tsp per gallon). I noticed that one of the fish is absolutely covered in oodinium/velvet. I ordered copper meds to treat it but I have never encountered velvet before and I have never treated with copper.

Is it possible to add the copper treatment with this much salt in the water, or is there a negative affect? I know some meds don’t play well with salt, like formalin. I’m just trying to determine if I need to remove as much of this water as I can before adding the copper treatment.

 

[Rocksor]

Tips from RD. on using copper, start at post #4

Treating velvet

Any tips for treating velvet. The fish looks to have a dusty whitish covering all over its fins. Wont bother posting a pic because no matter what i do i cant get it show. So far ive added salt 1 tablespoon per 10 gal and remember hearing to keep the lights off. I also ordered cupramine...

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

 

[neutrino]

I've done it.

This was a few years ago after the derecho storm when our power was out ten days. It was also a heat wave here, mid 90s (unusual where I am). So I hauled buckets and buckets of river water for daily water changes. The aftermath was I had ich in all my tanks a couple of weeks later, I hadn't had ich in well over 20 years. I started treating with salt, which wasn't doing much, so I did copper based ich meds and kept up with both (salt and meds) for two weeks after the last of the visible ich. No harmful effects on the fish. Started out with Aquari-Sol, only thing I could find nearby, then went to Copper Safe as soon as I could get some.

Cured the ich with no harmful effects to my fish-- kapampa gibberosa, besides sevs and geos, a few wild Peru scalare, guianacara, L200 and L260 plecos, and I forget what else. Some of what I've read says copper harms reproduction in fish, but I continued having successful breeding. I'm not a chemist or an expert on meds, so this is just my experience with these specific meds. I can't speak to other copper treatments. I don't remember the salt dose I did, not crazy high, though higher in the kapampa tank.

 

[neutrino]

...Naturally, during the outage there wasn't a generator to be found anywhere in my area. After that experience I bought a generator, which has come in handy more than once since then.

 

[ryansmith83]

I bit the bullet and added the Coppersafe in addition to the salt, then blacked out the tank. The directions say the treatment lasts a month. Does it really take that long?

 

[neutrino]

I bit the bullet and added the Coppersafe in addition to the salt, then blacked out the tank. The directions say the treatment lasts a month. Does it really take that long?

I don't know about velvet, can't think when I've ever dealt with it. The ich situation after the power outage and river water was the worst I can remember dealing with, in terms of fish being covered (Heros were worst, geos pretty bad also, kapampa had it least). I remember thinking it cleared quickly once I added the meds to the salt, but I don't recall exactly how long that was. I do remember it improved significantly within just a few days. With the salt alone it was getting worse. If I remember correctly, I intentionally overdosed the Copper Safe a bit. I left it in for a few weeks after no signs of ich on any fish, wanted to be certain to get the complete ich life cycle, make sure it was completely eradicated from the tanks. As I understand it, Copper Safe is fairly mild toward fish.

If I remember correctly, I did fairly frequent (moderate) water changes for a week or so, wanted to get the river water out of there. I re-dosed the Copper Safe per water replaced, and continued with salt also; my theory was the combination was what was clearing the ich so quickly; can't prove it scientifically, just my impression from the quick results. Big water changes (80-90%) once I was satisfied there was no chance for ich to reappear and was ready to remove the meds, the whole process was about 5 weeks, I think. I wanted to be sure.

 

[duanes]

Because both parasites (ick and Oodinum) have dormant stages that (at that impermeable stage) are immune to meds, you must catch them all when they are non-dormant individuals.
The vulnerable stages appear at different times, this is why it sometimes takes weeks of treatment, and unless you kill every last one, the disease can reappear over and over again.

 

[ryansmith83]

The fish in question arrived on Tuesday afternoon. I could immediately tell something was off, so I started high heat and salt at 2 tsp per gallon because usually at this time of year ich runs rampant in the colder temps.

The next morning, Wednesday, when the sunlight hit them, I could tell they were covered in a powder-like film, especially noticeable over the face and eyes. This is what they looked like on Tuesday:

I immediately went out and got CopperSafe because it looked like velvet to me, even though I've never dealt with it personally. I blacked out the tank, but upon checking this morning (Friday) this is what the same fish has progressed to:

Thoughts?

 

[RD.]

As I understand it, Copper Safe is fairly mild toward fish.

It is, especially in water with higher pH values as I believe it is in a chelated form. I wish we could still get that product up here in the frozen North, it was my go to med for ectoparasites for many years. After Mardel sold it to Fritz I never saw it again in my area. I typically never wasted my time with salt & high temps as I found it to be more stressful to some species, than the Coppersafe.

The link Rocksor posted with my recommendation NOT to mix salt with copper, was in reference to that person using Seachem Cupramine, which is not nearly as safe or at least simplistic to use, as Coppersafe.

 

[neutrino]

At least some of that looks like ich to me. A couple of my rotkeils in the case I mentioned had it bad enough to affect their breathing, as I think I'm seeing in your video. They all recovered. But maybe your fish has a combination of things?

Did they get chilled in transit? Don't know how helpful this is but I had one instance of a power outage for 2 or 3 days in winter. Tanks dipped to high 60s--70-ish. Other than being lethartic at that temperature, most of my fish were fine except a wild rotkeil, which had cloudy eyes and some film on its flanks by the time power came back. Couldn't tell you what it was exactly. I so rarely get sick fish and I'm typically pretty simplistic with meds, so I guessed it as a bit of fungus. Tried salt, didn't work, so I treated with meth blue, which cleared her up pretty quickly. Maybe someone else will have a better idea.