Corn?

[Energy]

You can lead a horse to water ........

Rest assured I did take your advice into consideration and thank you for it. Likewise there are many sources, with opinions, to the nutritional content and impact of the foods we eat.

I appreciate the input- it is the reason I specifically asked that question.

Corn Meal- of course a by-product of Corn, is a main ingredient in many of the processed fish foods commercially available.

The reason for the corn and pea feed is simply a viable alternative to the main stable of the fish's diet.

I brought it up in hopes to find others who may have, or have not, successfully experimented with actually supplementing a vegetable matter into a rays diet and find out what their results where/are. I have used some of the previously mentioned food sources i.e. vegetable/algae/nori based wafers with success. But once a fish gets larger, as rays tend to do, I was hoping to find a fresh source for vegetable matter in bulk.

I was not as concerned about the husk of the corn and peas as the initial reasoning that started with supplementing vegetable matter into their diet came when I witnessed my large Leo happily munching on a stand of Bamboo that is in my system.

This ray took a large, fiberous, wood based, living Bamboo piece and literally chewed it into nothing.

From their he cleanly consumed every living plant in the system. I thought the bamboo might have been a "fluke". I had hopes that he wouldn't touch a tougher plant such as Anubias.

Wrong- he has ate them leaves, stems, roots and all.

 

[RD.]

Corn Meal- of course a by-product of Corn, is a main ingredient in many of the processed fish foods commercially available.

Certainly there are many commercial foods out there that contain cheap low cost ingredients, that doesn't equate to those ingredients being ideal food for a stingray. Also, in the case of commercial foods, those cereal grains have been cooked/processed which not only removes, or at least reduces much of the anti-nutritional matter, it also makes those cereal grains much more digestible for the fish. I don't recall ever seeing whole uncooked kernels of corn, or whole uncooked peas in a commercial fish food.


In commercial fish food, carbs/starch basically only serve 2 purposes;

1. they are used as a binding agent (such as wheat flour).
2. they supply a cheap source of energy to the fish (so that the much more expensive protein is spared)

The latter example is exactly why one often sees high cereal grain content in low cost generic farm feeds. It's not in there due to its superior nutrient value & bioavailability to a fish. It's in there to spare the more expensive protein (fish-krill-squid-shrimp-etc) & to save overall production costs.

But again, with most terrestrial based plant matter you can't compare raw ingredients with those that have been properly processed.


BTW - that river biotope set up of yours is amazing, well done!

 

[Proximus]

I brought it up in hopes to find others who may have, or have not, successfully experimented with actually supplementing a vegetable matter into a rays diet and find out what their results where/are.

I can say that after i put spirulina in the ray food i make - my histrix got even nicer colours/shades, and she got several dark/black pigment spots on the underside of the disc (I first noticed it after about 2 months or so). So from my experience with this ray - it definitely seems to have a positive effect on them, at least on the visuals.

 

[Energy]

The latter example is exactly why one often sees high cereal grain content in low cost generic farm feeds. It's not in there due to its superior nutrient value & bioavailability to a fish. It's in there to spare the more expensive protein (fish-krill-squid-shrimp-etc) & to save overall production costs.

BTW - that river biotope set up of yours is amazing, well done!

I agree with all of your post above but wanted to comment on this particular statement. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

As owners of large fish, Rays can get very expensive to feed. I would hope that we could find an acceptable "bulk filler" food source that, without harming the fish, will at least help to get it full.

A stingray kept in the right environment and under good conditions can grow to over 2 feet in disc width or more. This fish can also eat continually through out the day if allowed. Many owners are feeding their rays 2-5 pounds of shrimp a week-or more.

The rays eat better than their care givers. As conscientious owners it is our obligation to provide the animals in our keeping with the proper diet.

BUT does 100% of that have to come from shrimp, fish fillets and other high end foods etc? Could part of that diet come from a cheaper "filler" with no adverse affects to the fish- I think/hope so.

I would not advocate changing the staple of a rays diet. I do think it would be beneficial if a viable alternative supplement that could provide some decent nutritional input along with just generally filling up the fish.

Wether that is corn, peas or processed corn meal. Massivore is a great(debate aside) "processed" food source for rays and other predatory fish. But when priced out by the pound it is more expensive than Filet Mignot.

Live foods are scary due to the disease and parasite risk- it is never recommend to owners to go catch their own although it would be an affordable alternative.

So where do we go?

Do we continue to spend $4-$8 per pound on food for our Rays while we settle for the 99 cent hamburger special for ourselves?

Of course someone will say that is a choice you make when you purchased the animal but we are also able to choose to find great foods at lower costs. In the end the Corn and Pea feed is an option to try and think "Outside the Box".

I am definately open to discussion on this and hope threads like this one will help ray owners in general find or discover new things about their animals.

BTW- thanks for the compliment on the system!

 

[Energy]

I can say that after i put spirulina in the ray food i make - my histrix got even nicer colours/shades, and she got several dark/black pigment spots on the underside of the disc (I first noticed it after about 2 months or so). So from my experience with this ray - it definitely seems to have a positive effect on them, at least on the visuals.

That is good to hear. I also experiment with using Rephashy "super pig" in my stingray slurry to improve fish coloration. It contains a large amount of caroteins which promote better coloration in lizards and can also be found in some fish foods. Although the rays didn't show much change the discus-especially with red pigments- showed an increase in coloration.

 

[RD.]

If you want to add a lower cost feed to the mix, without simply adding low nutrient bulk such as corn, you might want to consider looking into commercial farm feed. For $30-40 you can buy a 50 lb bag of many generic farm feeds.

The biggest issue you will find with most of those types of food (beyond their lower overall quality) is that many of them are high in fat. Something designed for catfish would probably be your best bet as those formulas tend to have lower crude fat content compared to trout/salmon feeds.

There are also far less costly alternatives to Massivore, I dare say some of those even provide far more optimum nutrient levels, at half the price.

 

[Energy]

If you want to add a lower cost feed to the mix, without simply adding low nutrient bulk such as corn, you might want to consider looking into commercial farm feed. For $30-40 you can buy a 50 lb bag of many generic farm feeds.

The biggest issue you will find with most of those types of food (beyond their lower overall quality) is that many of them are high in fat. Something designed for catfish would probably be your best bet as those formulas tend to have lower crude fat content compared to trout/salmon feeds.

There are also far less costly alternatives to Massivore, I dare say some of those even provide far more optimum nutrient levels, at half the price.

I've heard new life spectrum may be a good alternative at about half the price and potentially superior nutritional quality.

Has anyone used new life spectrum and experienced the same or better feeding response as from massivore?

 

[RD.]

I wouldn't know anything about that.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396358

 

[Zoodiver]

Or how about feeding something that would be in their natural diet?
Veg amounts in the GI tract is proven in wild studies by accidental ingestion. Are you sure they are EATING you plants, or chewing them for entertainment? I've seen many rays chew up things into small parts and not ever swallow the thing they were chewing.

The other reason rays chew odd things in captive settings is to keep the grinding plates rotating into position like they would in the wild. The plates drop out on a regular basis and are replaced like shark teeth. By feeding soft foods only to animals under our care, we are eliminating the very much needed hard shell/exoskeleton they chew through in the wild. My rays get things in shells as part of the diet for that reason and do very well because of it.

 

[Energy]

Or how about feeding something that would be in their natural diet?
Veg amounts in the GI tract is proven in wild studies by accidental ingestion. Are you sure they are EATING you plants, or chewing them for entertainment? I've seen many rays chew up things into small parts and not ever swallow the thing they were chewing.

The other reason rays chew odd things in captive settings is to keep the grinding plates rotating into position like they would in the wild. The plates drop out on a regular basis and are replaced like shark teeth. By feeding soft foods only to animals under our care, we are eliminating the very much needed hard shell/exoskeleton they chew through in the wild. My rays get things in shells as part of the diet for that reason and do very well because of it.

You might be right, maybe they are chewing and spitting it out. I never knew the rays actually shed their grinding discs. That's really neat to know- thanks or sharing that.

I could see where they would need therefore need something tough to occasionally chew on.