Crencichla cf Lugubris-Tocantins

[mrrobxc]

One more thing. Let's keep in touch since you are relatively close. We can swap and stuff in the future as we grow out our fish. I'm near philly.

 

[crenicichla444]

Sorry for taking so long to reply everybody, I was in the hospital till very recently.


Awesome collection of pike you've got going on! As for my Tapajos I'm not so sure if my Tapajos is I or II anymore. I could've sworn Jeff has them labeled as II but now are listed as I. Don't know if I miss read or not. Which ever pike he is he's certainly bold and very responsive, love the little guy. The Tocantins are still very shy at my approach, don't know why. Maybe it's cause the Silver Aro they're with is such a spaz or that my Trachycorystes cats are so big and intimidating during feedings that it's making them nervous. I also have Geo Abalios and Severums as dithers but despite their boldness the Tocantins still hide often.

I had always wanted Lents but never scooped up any because of their reputation for aggression and I had been trying to move away from aggressive comm's. I definitely agree with the inquisitive nature as even the Tocantins are avid watchers of me when I'm at a distance. Love the intelligence behind those inquisitive eyes.

Even before becoming a pike fiend in training, I used to skulk around this section and was always impressed by the knowledge. It is too bad that their isn't more activity, pikes really are amazing.


My Tapajos was no problem but even now after returning home I still can't get the Tocantins on even frozen. I've tried shrimp and silver sides and despite all the aggressive feeding going on the Tocantins just watch. Only after quarantining some feeders and then releasing them did they eat for me, though I will say they where ravenous when they did eat.

Hopefully we'll both have better luck breaking our problem feeders soon.


Definitely, pikes are too smart and beautiful to not be getting the attention they deserve.


I wonder only because the 2 Tocantins are shy but the Tapajos is so bold despite the Tocantins being 7-9 inches while the Tapajos is 4 inches. Makes me wonder if it has as much to do with the size they're caught at as well as the individual personality and tankmates. The Tocantins are in with a large Silver Aro(12-14inches), 2 Trachycorystes(12 inches), along with Sevs and Geo Abalios while the Tapajos is in a tank with a pair of Electric Blue Acara and 3 Tetragonpterus which are all extremely bold and frenzied eaters. I wonder if the tankmates are also making a difference for me in the feeding success.

Thanks guys for the responses it appreciated, I really love my new pick ups so it's nice to get some tips from those in the know.

What I've experienced is to get boisterous aggressive tankmates that are SMALLER than the pike to help bring em out of hiding. Also aggressive feeders always help ime idk why yours are so shy. Idk if it has to do with size collected I've heard of adult cobras that are super aggressive imported at 10-12 inches. Also rapps had big multispinosa that begged for food like crazy u could see it in the pics.
Mrrboxc sorry to hear 4 of your cincta died. On the bright side at least you have a creniholic living nearby you lol man what I would give for someone who's obsessed with pikes to live nearby


Sent from my iPod touch using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[koltsixx]

I spoke to Jeff today and he had tapajos 1. I asked since I was confused as well since he initially labeled them as tapajos 2.

So yours are tapajos 1. Young tapajos 1 are orange whereas young tapajos 2 are mottled hence the moniker of cobra pike. I just picked up 4 of them after confirming since a power outage killed 4 of my 8 cinctas.

So I wasn't seeing things, thanks for clearing that up for me; so now I know I've got a Tapajos I. It's funny since when Jeff listed them as Tapajos II he stated they where the reddest race of pike which I had thought Tapajos I was the reddest, so now it makes more sense to me.

My little guy is definitely a gorgeous orange color, quite a stunner even at this size. Again man, thanks for the heads up and I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of the cinctas.

One more thing. Let's keep in touch since you are relatively close. We can swap and stuff in the future as we grow out our fish. I'm near philly.

Definitely man, it's always good to keep in touch with fellow members especially ones who have similar tastes. I'd definitely be down for trades and me and my friends do head that way to get a genuine philly cheesesteak and to visit the Rocky statue now and again so trading should be a pleasant experience.

What I've experienced is to get boisterous aggressive tankmates that are SMALLER than the pike to help bring em out of hiding. Also aggressive feeders always help ime idk why yours are so shy. Idk if it has to do with size collected I've heard of adult cobras that are super aggressive imported at 10-12 inches. Also rapps had big multispinosa that begged for food like crazy u could see it in the pics.
Mrrboxc sorry to hear 4 of your cincta died. On the bright side at least you have a creniholic living nearby you lol man what I would give for someone who's obsessed with pikes to live nearby


Sent from my iPod touch using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

thanks for the tips, maybe that's my problem because my pikes seem terrified of my trachycorystes cats and my Aro's sudden movements and aggressive feeding style. Wonder if they'd be better served with my Tetragonopterus showing them how to feed. They seem to have had a great effect on my Tapajos so maybe the Tocantins will also benefit from being housed with them. Yeah, I'm not sure why, they're so timid it really irks me to the point where I'm trying to move stock around to see if it makes a difference. I have to ask though I was thinking about putting the tapajos I with them but at 4 inches I worry he may fall prey to the bigger Tocantins. Are pikes known for cannibalism? Thus far they've ignored frozen shrimp and silver sides and have only taken to goldfish, something that irks me since I haven't fed live in years and I've kept Black Xingu Wolves, Dats and Armatus and never had to resort to live to break them. it was always as simple as starve and let them learn from their tankmates till now.

 

[crenicichla444]

You do not want to mix pikes of different sizes they can suck down large prey items!! Have had baby cr. Johanna suck down baby pbass that started out at the same length but outgrew them and ate them not much of a size difference. I wouldn't do it better be safe than sorry. However I would definitely try later on when it's bigger.

When I first got my atabapo II he was a good foot. He hid on sight and won't.eat anything but live either. But since moving him to my trout's larger tank he is not at all flustered by the trouts aggressive feeding and comes out a lot more and doesn't hide as much. Also is spitting out pellets rn I think he's gonna break soon. Downside is that he and the trout fight each other HARD. Pikes are pretty nasty fish ime but surprisingly the trout beats the pike off most of the time and chases him into a cave or under the big sponge filter. Idk yet it's frustrating as hell when you can't get your pikes to beg and come out.


Sent from my iPod touch using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[mrrobxc]

I agree. IF not seen a fish not another fish of the same kind of able to. Law of nature I guess.

Looking forward to seeing the progress!

 

[koltsixx]

You do not want to mix pikes of different sizes they can suck down large prey items!! Have had baby cr. Johanna suck down baby pbass that started out at the same length but outgrew them and ate them not much of a size difference. I wouldn't do it better be safe than sorry. However I would definitely try later on when it's bigger.

When I first got my atabapo II he was a good foot. He hid on sight and won't.eat anything but live either. But since moving him to my trout's larger tank he is not at all flustered by the trouts aggressive feeding and comes out a lot more and doesn't hide as much. Also is spitting out pellets rn I think he's gonna break soon. Downside is that he and the trout fight each other HARD. Pikes are pretty nasty fish ime but surprisingly the trout beats the pike off most of the time and chases him into a cave or under the big sponge filter. Idk yet it's frustrating as hell when you can't get your pikes to beg and come out.

Sent from my iPod touch using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

Thanks again for the info. man it's greatly appreciated. I always like to have as much info. on the fish I'm keeping or plan to buy and you've been a great help. So I'll definitely keep the Tapajos I in their current tank rather then risk putting them in the same tank as the Tocantins.

I'd love to see a pic of your big Atabapo II, and just to make sure I have this right Atabapo II and Tapajos II are just different monikers for the same pike right the Cobra Pike? Which is mottled as a juvenile while the the Tapajos I/Atabapo I are the red pikes which are orange when young and turn red as they age with the female being the redder of the two sexes? I know all to well your frustration and am hoping the addition of more similar sized pikes will help with making the Tocantins bolder.

Which leads me to 2 other questions I'm hoping you and mrrobxc can help me with. 1 is can you mix different similar sized pikes together or is it destined to be a nightmare?

My second question is aquascape is selling these guys as Atabapo II, are these guys Atabapo II? With no tail spot and no mottled coloration I wouldn't think this is any of the Atabapos/Tapajos but then again I've only recently started keeping pikes and definitely don't know enough about them to identify a juvenile.

I agree. IF not seen a fish not another fish of the same kind of able to. Law of nature I guess.

Looking forward to seeing the progress!

Thanks again man for the response, it appreciated. I've definitely seen the law of nature play out in my tanks on occasion. Luckily it was a rare event because I try to be informed before mixing fish(knock on wood). Now I pay attention to a lot of factors such as predominant prey fis in the wild and the build of the fish to see what kind of other fish a predator might be able to prey upon.

Just like I asked crenicichla444 I'm hoping you can help me identify the pike being sold by aquascape and your thoughts on comm'ing different species of pikes?

 

[crenicichla444]

Thanks again for the info. man it's greatly appreciated. I always like to have as much info. on the fish I'm keeping or plan to buy and you've been a great help. So I'll definitely keep the Tapajos I in their current tank rather then risk putting them in the same tank as the Tocantins.

I'd love to see a pic of your big Atabapo II, and just to make sure I have this right Atabapo II and Tapajos II are just different monikers for the same pike right the Cobra Pike? Which is mottled as a juvenile while the the Tapajos I/Atabapo I are the red pikes which are orange when young and turn red as they age with the female being the redder of the two sexes? I know all to well your frustration and am hoping the addition of more similar sized pikes will help with making the Tocantins bolder.

Which leads me to 2 other questions I'm hoping you and mrrobxc can help me with. 1 is can you mix different similar sized pikes together or is it destined to be a nightmare?

My second question is aquascape is selling these guys as Atabapo II, are these guys Atabapo II? With no tail spot and no mottled coloration I wouldn't think this is any of the Atabapos/Tapajos but then again I've only recently started keeping pikes and definitely don't know enough about them to identify a juvenile.

Thanks again man for the response, it appreciated. I've definitely seen the law of nature play out in my tanks on occasion. Luckily it was a rare event because I try to be informed before mixing fish(knock on wood). Now I pay attention to a lot of factors such as predominant prey fis in the wild and the build of the fish to see what kind of other fish a predator might be able to prey upon.

Just like I asked crenicichla444 I'm hoping you can help me identify the pike being sold by aquascape and your thoughts on comm'ing different species of pikes?

Yeah no problem I love pikes man. Unfortunately I think your confused about how the species thing is/works. Tapajos 1 and atabapo 1 are two VERY different SPECIES. Not a subspecies or a geographical variant. Same with Atabapo II and tapajos 2. In fact atabapo II are more closely related to Lents than tapajos sp.. However it can also be confusing since crenicichla Johanna can have many different variants and geographical variations but still are Johanna: here are a few variations but same sp.
It'll just take time for you to figure it out but you should the hang of it on no time.
The pikes in Question from aqua scape are indeed atabapo II. Good price on a good sized fish. However their shipping is quite expensive, so unless you're local or doing a group order idk haha. They sold a 3 inched at my lfs for 75 haha. Here's my guy the day I got him at a solid foot. Idk how well it'll work for you if you comm them, but if you so I would get 3 atabapo 2s. People seems to have better luck comming pikes when adding a group as opposed to 1. Atabapo II are supposedly less aggressive than other lugubris, but mine has proved the opposite. However he's a fully mature large male. Regardless of that I've seen many around 7 inches with other pikes Lents and marmoratas. I'd give it a go if you have an extra tank. Also another side note is that atabapo II are VeRY suspectible to hole inthe head. Clean water is a must and addition of tannins and lower ph is recommended. Peanut power, used to be a pike fanatic and very knowledgeable had a group of three he lost them to something. But they were like 2-3 inches so idk. U should be ok tho, just water change and use the search bar on your computer to find more info and I will say you're golden



Sent from my iPod touch using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[calibigrob]

I'm leaning towards both female. I haven't seen a male lugubris species with a white stripe in the middle of the dorsal fin. I have seen some female lugubris species that don't have a pink belly as the result of a dominant female being in the group. The females still retain the white stripe in the dorsal fin.

I learn n read most female has tht white on fin

Sent from my SM-G900P using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[mrrobxc]

I agree they are atabapo 2. Both atabapo species arE susceptible to hth. Soft water fish on general can be a pita.

As for mixing different species, I would refrain. Not worth mixing and watching a hundred dollar fish kill another unless you have a huge tank.

 

[crenicichla444]

I agree they are atabapo 2. Both atabapo species arE susceptible to hth. Soft water fish on general can be a pita.

As for mixing different species, I would refrain. Not worth mixing and watching a hundred dollar fish kill another unless you have a huge tank.

I find that atabapo I is much hardier. On the subject of mixing them that aren't like armatus payara me and colt have had. With cicichlids they nip and bully and you can try them out as long as size is appropriate. Payara one nip can equal missing eye or worse. Anyways it's always the owners decision what to do with his fish and money, but IMO as long as you have back up tanks I'd give it a try, like why not? Lol


Sent from my iPod touch using MonsterAquariaNetwork app