Curse my luck!!!

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Hdeuce;2019246; said:
the problem is once you breed the fish red x normal any offspring will still have the chance to produce red and if red is dominant, then you will have permenantly "muddied up" the line. if you are gonna do it dont ever sell one as a "normal" , or as a "red" for that matter.
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Right...:screwy:

If red is dominant (RR) and you have a normal (rr) all the normal fish is capable of producing would be normal offspring as it would be homozygous recessive. No way to "muddle up" the line. You'd either have red (RR), normal (Rr), or red with a chance to throw normal (Rr) if paired up with another heterozygous red.

IIIIIFFFFFFF it was simple Mendelian genetics. I don't know enough about these color morphs to say if it is or not

Here's what I have in mind for the best chance of normal morph snook.

Normal (rr) X red (RR)

All offspring are red (Rr)

Cross a female (Rr) back to normal dad (rr) and you get 50% normal (rr) and 50% heterozygous red (Rr).

Of course, I call dibbs on fry. Hell, I have a red female who's proven fertile I could send out to start the process. ;)

I know I read a book about the red devils and their color morphs and their breeding in the wild. Might help to find it and re-read it and see what it has to say on offspring. George Barlow maybe?
 
Because it usually is. But, as stated it's not basic Mendelian genetics anymore.

There is a good journal article from the 80's called "Melanophore death and disappearance produces color metamorphosis in the polychromatic Midas cichlid (Cichlasoma citrinellum)" which explains how they go from barred to colored (same for the snooks) I'm just having trouble accessing it for free through my college...

Abstract...

We describe the histological basis of color metamorphosis in the polychromatic Midas cichlid, Cichlasoma citrinellum. Eight percent of the individuals in a natural population transform from gray with black markings to orange, simultaneously losing their ability to adjust coloration in response to background and social context. This trait is inherited. Light- and electron microscopy revealed that this transformation is a two-step process. First, the melanophores die, then macrophage-like cells remove the debris. As a result of this initial process, the underlying xanthophores become visible, producing the orange coloration. A similar process may occur in individuals that further transform to white, or go directly from gray to white.
 
From my experience with devils(reds and barred) as well as hybrid devils(they'll breed with anything it seems), red is dominant. If it has a red gene it will be red. The only question seemed to be, at what size did they turn red? If they were RR, they started to change color around 4-5". If they were Rr, they started change color around 7-8".

Based on this, assuming devil and snook polychromy works the same:
You could breed your male to a red female to produce "late" reds(Rr). Any female offspring would be raised up and bred to your original male to produce greens(rr) and "late" reds(Rr) in equal proportions. This generation would have to be raised up to a good size before you could determine which were true greens(rr).

So, two generations in order to produce green snooks.
 
CrystalizedHairs;2021322; said:
So, two generations in order to produce green snooks.
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Thanks, that was most clarifying. :) Do you think the male will still be fertile and able to breed with his young by that time though? It takes a while for them to grow up, and then to breed again with the male, wow. Time consuming. Worth it, but time consuming.
 
He shouldn't loose any fertility, it should only take two years or so, ;). If anything he should be more fertile(a 16" male produces more sperm then say a 10" male). Your biggest problem will be keeping him small enough to breed with these younger females you'll be producing.
 
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