This is interesting. I almost always start new tanks with seeded filters, and decor that I have as extras on other tanks. I then add a few doz. feeder livebearers to the new tank. I have never seen much if any of an amonia or nitrite spike using this method.
Cycle completed, and then reversed
- Thread starter vaypourus
- Start date
Technical speaking, no I'm not using "pure" laboratory grade ammonia. I'm using cleaning grade ammonia with only 1 ingredient: Ammonium Hydroxide, which of course is just an aqueous solution of ammonia. There is no coloring, perfumes/scents, or sulfactants/soaps that are listed on the bottle. I understand it probably has negligible amounts of contaminants; this is the same gallon jug I have used on easily 20 tanks in the past year, and I have not had a problem yet. I am very confident that the ammonia I am using is not the problem.
As far as numbers go; I have not documented the process day by day as there really isn't much to it.
I add enough ammonia to get an initial reading of about 2-3 PPM (which I have found to provide faster cycling than higher concentrations). After about a week I start to test the ammonia level and add more ammonia as needed to get the concentration back to 2-3 PPM, once per day, as close as 24 hours after the last ammonia addition as possible. This involves a test to get the starting concentration in the tank, and a test (sometimes more) after the additional ammonia is added. On this particular brand of ammonia, it takes about 3 capfuls to jump the tank PPM up 2 PPM.
I usually do a test for nitrite every couple of days during the first part of the cycle to determine if the ammonia is getting broken down. My kit tested positive for nitrite about a week into the cycle. I did not pay attention to the value at the time, as it wasn't important.
Being that I used pre seeded media, I started to see a .5 to 1 PPM drop per day after a week. This slowly increased (I would guess .25 per 2 1/2 days??) until a test showed no ammonia in the tank. As witnessed before, ammonia breakdown seems to happen at an increasing pace, as opposed to nitrite which seems to plateau and then drop off suddenly over a day or two. At this point, I tested for nitrite, expected to see it in the tank, but found that this part of the cycle had also completed.
My test for nitrate at this point showed medium red on the API drop test; I would guess in the 80 PPM range.
The next day, the test for ammonia showed an increase in ammonia, even through I had not introduced any to the tank since the last test. The reading was between 1-2 PPM.
I have continued by cycling procedure, bringing the concentration up to 2-3 PPM per day, and 24 hours later I still see .75 to 1 PPM left over in the tank. Nitrites have been at 0 since I started testing for them daily.
I just tested the water, which is about 25 hours since the test yesterday. Here are my readings:
ammonia: .75 (between .5 and 1 ppm)
nitrite: 0 ppm
nitrate: between 40-80 PPM
This means that roughly half of the ammonia added is getting broken down per day. Why not the other half? This has been going on for weeks...I can't make heads or tails of it.
As far as numbers go; I have not documented the process day by day as there really isn't much to it.
I add enough ammonia to get an initial reading of about 2-3 PPM (which I have found to provide faster cycling than higher concentrations). After about a week I start to test the ammonia level and add more ammonia as needed to get the concentration back to 2-3 PPM, once per day, as close as 24 hours after the last ammonia addition as possible. This involves a test to get the starting concentration in the tank, and a test (sometimes more) after the additional ammonia is added. On this particular brand of ammonia, it takes about 3 capfuls to jump the tank PPM up 2 PPM.
I usually do a test for nitrite every couple of days during the first part of the cycle to determine if the ammonia is getting broken down. My kit tested positive for nitrite about a week into the cycle. I did not pay attention to the value at the time, as it wasn't important.
Being that I used pre seeded media, I started to see a .5 to 1 PPM drop per day after a week. This slowly increased (I would guess .25 per 2 1/2 days??) until a test showed no ammonia in the tank. As witnessed before, ammonia breakdown seems to happen at an increasing pace, as opposed to nitrite which seems to plateau and then drop off suddenly over a day or two. At this point, I tested for nitrite, expected to see it in the tank, but found that this part of the cycle had also completed.
My test for nitrate at this point showed medium red on the API drop test; I would guess in the 80 PPM range.
The next day, the test for ammonia showed an increase in ammonia, even through I had not introduced any to the tank since the last test. The reading was between 1-2 PPM.
I have continued by cycling procedure, bringing the concentration up to 2-3 PPM per day, and 24 hours later I still see .75 to 1 PPM left over in the tank. Nitrites have been at 0 since I started testing for them daily.
I just tested the water, which is about 25 hours since the test yesterday. Here are my readings:
ammonia: .75 (between .5 and 1 ppm)
nitrite: 0 ppm
nitrate: between 40-80 PPM
This means that roughly half of the ammonia added is getting broken down per day. Why not the other half? This has been going on for weeks...I can't make heads or tails of it.
Also, let me elaborate on pre seeded media that was added to the tank:
-Sand from a cycled tank
-Driftwood from my growout 125
-sponge filters (which acted as the only filtration in my 20 gallon longs, which all had pristine water parameters)
-pot scrubbies rubbed and loaded with bacteria mud from my Eheim and Rena canisters on my growout tanks
-Sand from a cycled tank
-Driftwood from my growout 125
-sponge filters (which acted as the only filtration in my 20 gallon longs, which all had pristine water parameters)
-pot scrubbies rubbed and loaded with bacteria mud from my Eheim and Rena canisters on my growout tanks
Got home too late to give this the attention to detail it requires. I'll chew on it over coffee and answer in th AM.
Sorry for the delay, duty called.
You laid out a well written, correct approach to fishless cycling.
Just to clarify, have you done any waterchanges or do you have an auto water changer in place ?
For some reason the Bio filter is not keeping up with the Ammonia added.
I would cut the amount of ammonia you are currently adding by half for two days in a row.
If you get two zero Ammonia readings, two days in a row, do a 50% W/C and retest for Nitrate.
Add the reduced by half ammount of Ammonia and retest the next day.
If you again get a zero reading, increase the Ammonia to 3/4 the original amount and retest in 24 hours.
If my guess is right your Bio filter is insufficient.
If I am wrong the results of these tests should point you in the right direction.
$ .02
BTW, the clarification of what Ammonia you are using was important for any newer member who might be reading this thread.
You laid out a well written, correct approach to fishless cycling.
Just to clarify, have you done any waterchanges or do you have an auto water changer in place ?
For some reason the Bio filter is not keeping up with the Ammonia added.
I would cut the amount of ammonia you are currently adding by half for two days in a row.
If you get two zero Ammonia readings, two days in a row, do a 50% W/C and retest for Nitrate.
Add the reduced by half ammount of Ammonia and retest the next day.
If you again get a zero reading, increase the Ammonia to 3/4 the original amount and retest in 24 hours.
If my guess is right your Bio filter is insufficient.
If I am wrong the results of these tests should point you in the right direction.
$ .02
BTW, the clarification of what Ammonia you are using was important for any newer member who might be reading this thread.
Sorry it's been a few days...had a big project at work that really consumed me.
I don't have an automatic water changer, however I have done a water change of about 50 gallons as the nitrate levels were pretty high. This did not seem to affect the way ammonia was broken down/not broken down. My water comes from a holding tank where it is bubbled and brought up to tank temperature over a 2 day period. The water initially comes from a 3 stage RO filter. There are no additives made to the water in the holding tank, but I do add a mixture of epson salt, baking soda, and marine salt to bring gH and kH directly to the tank to buffer the water. I keep a bag of Canada organically processed peat moss in the sump to drop the pH a bit and add tanins to the water. The water pH tests right around 7.2; I have not tested the carbonite and general hardness in the past week or so. I have not seen a swing in pH since the tank was set up.
I had already decided to cut the amount of ammonia added in half; the night I wrote my last post I only brought the ammonia concentration up to about 1.5 PPM (or as close as the test could tell).
The next day I tested and found only a slight amount of ammonia (less than .25%..the test was almost yellow). I did a very large water change (about 110 gallons) and added ammonia again to about 1.5 PPM. This morning, ammonia tested 0.
I have added ammonia back to 1.5 PPM. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
I don't have an automatic water changer, however I have done a water change of about 50 gallons as the nitrate levels were pretty high. This did not seem to affect the way ammonia was broken down/not broken down. My water comes from a holding tank where it is bubbled and brought up to tank temperature over a 2 day period. The water initially comes from a 3 stage RO filter. There are no additives made to the water in the holding tank, but I do add a mixture of epson salt, baking soda, and marine salt to bring gH and kH directly to the tank to buffer the water. I keep a bag of Canada organically processed peat moss in the sump to drop the pH a bit and add tanins to the water. The water pH tests right around 7.2; I have not tested the carbonite and general hardness in the past week or so. I have not seen a swing in pH since the tank was set up.
I had already decided to cut the amount of ammonia added in half; the night I wrote my last post I only brought the ammonia concentration up to about 1.5 PPM (or as close as the test could tell).
The next day I tested and found only a slight amount of ammonia (less than .25%..the test was almost yellow). I did a very large water change (about 110 gallons) and added ammonia again to about 1.5 PPM. This morning, ammonia tested 0.
I have added ammonia back to 1.5 PPM. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
Tank is finally cycled completely. I still don't know what happened.
I essentially restarted the cycle as if I were starting from scratch. This made my nitrate jump to extremely high levels, however I stuck with it and continued to add ammonia daily to keep levels in the 2-3 PPM range. After about a week the ammonia is completely consumed every 14 hours or so.
I basically had to do a 100% water change over the peroid of two days to get the nitrate down to a reasonable level; I don't like to do this drastic of a water change because of the possibility of shocking the biosystem. My water is treated and heated RO water w/ buffers and peat moss so I was not super worried. After the water change I added ammonia again just to test things. No residual ammonia or nitrite were present the next day.
I have added the plants I from my other tank (anubias, crypts and jungle val) to help with the nitrate. My algae scrubber will be completed very soon, so this eventually won't be an issue at all.
Thanks for those who put in thier two cents...usually I find that an extra set of eyes can help with something I have missed. In this case, it was just nice to know that it was in fact a weird problem and I wasn't crazy.
I essentially restarted the cycle as if I were starting from scratch. This made my nitrate jump to extremely high levels, however I stuck with it and continued to add ammonia daily to keep levels in the 2-3 PPM range. After about a week the ammonia is completely consumed every 14 hours or so.
I basically had to do a 100% water change over the peroid of two days to get the nitrate down to a reasonable level; I don't like to do this drastic of a water change because of the possibility of shocking the biosystem. My water is treated and heated RO water w/ buffers and peat moss so I was not super worried. After the water change I added ammonia again just to test things. No residual ammonia or nitrite were present the next day.
I have added the plants I from my other tank (anubias, crypts and jungle val) to help with the nitrate. My algae scrubber will be completed very soon, so this eventually won't be an issue at all.
Thanks for those who put in thier two cents...usually I find that an extra set of eyes can help with something I have missed. In this case, it was just nice to know that it was in fact a weird problem and I wasn't crazy.
Glad it all worked out for you.
Sometimes weird problems are fun to solve, sometimes they leave you wondering what you did to fix them.
Sometimes weird problems are fun to solve, sometimes they leave you wondering what you did to fix them.
