Dasyatis sabina -- Atlantic Rays -- Anyone keep them?

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Against the white plate underneath her, she pretty much is see-through and my cheapo Kodak camera flash pretty much highlights every ridge on her body.

Googled pics, they all look the same as she does, except the older adults are darker and less transparent:

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You know what, you're right. I looked at her today in the daylight (I work and study third shift so I'm not really ever awake during the day) and I can see what you're referring to. She's lost weight and thinned out. What causes that, especially when she's still eating? Parasites? She's captive bred and never exhibited signs before. How would I test/treat for that?

What about the switch in substrate, can they get impacted if they ingest too much? I would think since they're bottom feeders they're designed to handle a little bit of substrate ingestion, but what if she took in too much or this new stuff can't be processed?

Now I'm in a panic.
 
PinkLady;3473612; said:
You know what, you're right. I looked at her today in the daylight (I work and study third shift so I'm not really ever awake during the day) and I can see what you're referring to. She's lost weight and thinned out. What causes that, especially when she's still eating? Parasites? She's captive bred and never exhibited signs before. How would I test/treat for that?

What about the switch in substrate, can they get impacted if they ingest too much? I would think since they're bottom feeders they're designed to handle a little bit of substrate ingestion, but what if she took in too much or this new stuff can't be processed?

Now I'm in a panic.

I would think its internal parasites, since you do feed feeders on a regular basis. Does her poop still come out solid black, or does it come out white and stringy?
 
In the months that I've had her, I've never seen black poop, even when I had the white sand. I always strained the sand during water changes too, never saw anything like that. The only thing I've ever seen appear in the tank out of nowhere is a pink/orange twisty substance that looked kind of wrinkly like brain or intestines or something -- I thought it was her poop and that's what it was supposed to look like. Apparently not if it's supposed to be black?

OK, so let's go the parasite route. What would the most common one be and how would I treat her ASAP?

She ate 2 shrimp in the last 24 hours, but without much gusto. So she's still taking in food, but not enough.
 
If she was impacted, she wouldn't eat.

Thin and eating points to two things in rays.
1) Internal parasite.
2) Not digesting the food she's eating.

I started to lean away from #1. The reason being is that she was captive bred (or at least sold to you that way). But then I remember you saying you feed goldfish - which is a big no no with rays (or any fish). Goldfish are nasty when it comes to having parasites, and offer no worth while nutritional value.

However, What really pushed me to choice #2 is that she's in FW. I think you are starting to see the effects of long term FW chemistry in a tank.

I'd ditch the goldfish, and start working her to about a 16-18 for salinity over the next couple of weeks. If you do want to treat with a dewormer, look at using Panacur (fenbendazole). You can get it at a lot of petstore under various names. Just beware that it will probably knock down her eating for awhile - and it's to be expected. I use it to deworm all of my wild caught rays.

PS - Your third pic is of a Southern ray ;)
 
She's not in freshwater, she's kept in brackish -- leaning on the heavier side. I use Instant Ocean and premix it in a couple pitchers of warm water and slowly stir it in as the tank refills during water change. I've done this since she first arrived, she's always been kept this way. And she definitely is captive bred, they gave me the breeder company from Florida but I don't know where I put the card.

The only reason I feed her goldfish is to try to round out her diet because she absolutely refuses to eat anything else other than shrimp. I tried scenting (soaking things in the bag with the shrimp), cutting things like worms and fish into fine pieces, starving, etc. She just won't eat anything outside shrimp & goldfish. She did eat a couple ghost shrimp once and did eat a couple freeze-dried krill, but then flat-out refused again. I bought that Mazuri stuff and injected it into the shrimp, and as soon as she tasted it when chewing the shrimp, she spit it out every time. I started stuffing the shrimp with Hikari carnivore pellets and she does eat it that way, but I don't think that's enough.

I'm going to do a dose of deworming to be on the safe side, but I think it is the change in substrate. Today I picked her up and brought her up near the surface to get a better look at her, and I noticed her back fins are REALLY red on the front where she uses them to dig and "walk". I think the substrate is too abrasive for her. It doesn't feel like it to me, it feels soft to me, but then again human skin is alot tougher than ray skin. I think the new substrate upset her and she's stressed by it, thus not eating. The more I think back on it, the more I started noticing the change in eating habits right about when I changed out the sand.

So what now, change back? Keep it? Find a new option? That other stuff sucked so bad in terms of clogging my filters (even after I moved the intakes farther up away from the bottom) and sticking to her, but she liked it and did really well on it.
 
If she's showing signs of wear on her ventral side, the first thing I would do is go back to a substrate that worked for you in the past.
I currently have a female Southern pup that was torn up pretty bad by being housed in a course bottom holding. She healed up quite well on her own once she was in something better suiting for her moving around on the bottom.

As for food, try oily frozen (then thawed) seafood (mackerel, herring, squid, krill, clam and salmon - I have yet to see a ray refuse salmon). Those foods are a bit heavier in oil and scent for her. Might help get her going.
 
I'm going to try to pick up some of those seafoods tomorrow after work to see if she'll go for it. If not, is there a way to blend up foods and inject them into her mouth to get her to swallow it so she rebuilds some strength? She's still hanging in there but I think her time is borrowed if I can't get her back on track within the next week.

Is there another type of sand that you guys recommend that isn't so fluffy/light that it kicks up into the water and floats, getting into the filters, and isn't so clingy that it sticks to the rays' slime coats? I will go back to that aragonite stuff if I have to, but I want to make sure it's my only option before I do.
 
Tube feeding rays is very possible. I go to it as a last resort.
Blend a slurry of seafoods together. I'd mix in a little B12 (you can get tablets at any health food store). I'd also add a high calorie supplement (Nutra-Cal or STAT). Those two additons will help get her eating again, and get her through the time she's not.

Once it's blended, use a syringe and airline tubing to feed the animal. It won't take much food for her at this size. Make sure to round the tip to the airline so it's not a sharp edge. Tubing is a two person job. Catch the ray and invert her. The person holding the ray should have a finger or two on her back near the base of her tail to feel her stomach. The other person runs the tube into her mouth SLOWLY. If you push too hard, you can do damage to the lining of the stomach wall. Once it's in, pull it out just a touch. At that point, I'd mark the tube with a black line or other marker so you know the depth to insert next time. Slowly push the food in. If she fights or regurges, let her go. It's not worth stressing her out over it. Give her 7mL or so to start with. Small amounts a couple times a day will be better than large amounts once.
 
Okay, you all are probally going to laugh at me and as i am reading this i am finding out it is probally not a good idea but i figured i would run it past you guys and see what you guys say (sorry for taking over the thread). I am living with my parents still which equals minimul space. So i have a friend that has a pair of Atlantic Rays that just popped out some pups and he has his rays in a complete FW set up and i was wondering if i could put these rays in a 75g FW set up and then switch them to a 180g set up in the future once they grow? They are about 4" across right now. Like i said it probaly is not the best idea but i was wondering if there is any way i could get this to work. I live in Florida so this is the only legal stingray available to me.
 
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