Datnioides disease update

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Auricom1

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 22, 2010
38
0
0
U.K.
Hi all,

after a rather distressing few weeks it is finally time for an update.

I have tried everything to exterminate this pathogen, and i am sorry to say that nothing works.

I had my biggest and best tiger ( a ten incher) injected with a broad spectrum antibiotic, and gave all of my tigers a daily 5 hour bath that had the same antiobiotic in it. I did this for ten days. (Advice from one of countries leading icthyologists).

i then put them back in their ususal hospital tank, which has a mix of R/O waste, and R/O pure. Temp was raised to 30C and tonic salts added (this is the ONLY thing that seems to knock the disease).

I am sad to report that i lost two of my dats last week. Mt remaining three are very poorly indeed, with erupting lateral lines, but, no huge peach coloured lumps. However, one of them is showing early signs of systemic infection, which is par for the course of this illness.

Histology tests at Sparsholt fisheries dept. revealed that the gill tissues had turned to pink jelly (as i expected). Hence the fish asphyxiated.
Testing has found no pathogens as yet, but testing is a little limited. This leaves one option, which is send a live sample to DEFRA for dissection. This is where it gets complicated. They might not be able to find the cause, but if they do, and they don't like what they see, not only would the visit my house to cull all of my fish, i would also be banned from keeping fish for 3 years (a 'fallow' period). Worse still, they would also visit everyone who has been in contact with my fish/water and visit all shops where my fish came from, and cull all of their fish too, and impose the same 3 year 'fallow period'. This is a huge risk to take, and it isn't fair on all of the other people!!

What i can tell you is this.

it is not possible to cure this illness.
The most likely cause is a virus, which is resistant to all known treatments.
The virus causes puss to accumulate under the skin which erupts through eventually
The virus affects the sensory nodes around the head and within the lateral line.
There is likely to be 2ndary infection, probably bacterial, given all of the physical damage (lumps, etc).
There is no way to stop this illness from becoming 'systemic', which is how it gets into the gills. Once it is systemic the fish is living on 'borrowed' time.
Fish should be 'culled' at this stage, but i am not able to do this unfortunately.

I have battled with this illness for three years. I have tried everything i know, and everything some of the worlds top experts know, and i am sorry to say that it has beaten me!! I have spent an absolute fortune, all to no avail!!

If any of you discover that your fish have this all you can do is turn the temp up and use very high doses of tonic salts, also very regular large water changes. But, this will only keep it at bay, it is not a cure.

My final recommendation is this. If you already have dats, and you are planning to get more then they should be quarrentined for a long time, not a week, not a month, perhaps not even 6 months - probably more like a year!!!

I do know that i got unlucky! My first batch of tigers were fine, so this illness probably came in with my 2nd batch, which were quarrentined, etc. It took over 6 months for any signs of illness to appear.

I have written all of this so as to try to further knowledge of this devastating illness. I have very detailed scientific diaries of everything i tried, which i hope may prove useful in the future.

I currently have three Tigers left out of an original 12!!!! And i don't expect one of them to last more than another week or so!!

If anyone needs advice on this, or perhaps wants to add to my detailed notes please feel free to contact me!!

On a more positive note, i have just ordered 7 5cm micro's. I have decided to start again!, and to stay clear of Undecims for now. In all searching for answers i have yet to find anyone who has managed to keep this species healthy. It would appear i have achieved much over the past three years, having got most of mine to a good size (9-10 inches). Alas all to no avail!! I have three tigers left, all are ill but are recovering. If anyone wants to have a go with them they are welcome to come and collect the fish for free!!! Perhaps a new 'brain' is needed,

Cheers,

Mike:nilly:
 
Sorry to hear that you were not able to get a handle on this affliction.I remember making a thread back in "08" about a nice sized thinbar I had purchased that came down with similar symptoms and later died.
 
Hi,

its a truly devastating illness!! I do hope someone can cure it at some point. The undecims are my favoutire tigers by far
 
Auricom1;5002653; said:
Hi,

its a truly devastating illness!! I do hope someone can cure it at some point. The undecims are my favoutire tigers by far
Yes,in my book they are number two after the widebars.
 
I will have a go mike, we will talk more on saturday and take it from there, what sort of state are they in now, you say that you dont expect them to live another week? whats so blatent to make them look half dead effectively?
 
Hiya,

In retrospect that was going overboard!!! Defo overstated. The larger one is doing well, still ha aslightly lumpy LL but it is settling well. The smallest also seems to be doing well too. i was getting concerned about the middle sized one, he was hanging around at the surface. But they have all just eaten a crazy amount of worms!!! So they can't be that bad!!! lol!! Thats tigers for you!!!! Bloody awesome fish!!! I love em!!!
 
They are super cool fish, they have an interesting temperment, i have just text a friend who recently had an indo from me, he also uses RO but has never used the waste jst stuck at RO and has no problems so comments in earlier thread regarding RO water not being suitable for tigers arnt necessarily false but also arnt necessarily the culprit, hes going to speak to a friend who also keeps tigers to see if they have had experiences, So as for everyone putting their heads together no one has ever overcome this disease? i spoke to a friend (titanfish) who had similar lesions on this tiger a few months back which he said healed up fine with salt so if those symptoms are purely coincidental i dont know but it healed up never the less.
 
sounds like ebola

1) disables a cellular protein called tetherin that normally can block the spread of virus from cell to cell

2) turning tissues into jelly
 
"The span of time from onset of symptoms to death is usually between 2 and 21 days"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola#Treatment

I know this does not state that its always the case but mike has been battling this for 2 years which makes this tale even more baffling
 
I haven't read all the other posts related to this issue, and it sounds like you've been through the mill and back! But a thought pops to mind.
Given that all NTTs are wild caught in the same areas of Laos and Thailand, and they are often labeled as fragile. In addition they are the main sufferer of the "sudden death". I've come to believe this is because of something they're carrying from wild, like gill flukes. Which is treatable if the fish is quarantined at treated correctly and early enough. Here when you buy NTTs they're always in treated tanks, Indos aren't but NTTs are.

Your problem is completely different. I'm a bit doubtful that your problem was with them from wild. The reason being such a disease would wipe them out in the wild, based on it being untreatable in captivity.
I live in Thailand and i own NTTs, i don't understand the "sudden death" thing, or fragile because all of mine are super strong. They've moved tanks 2 times in the last month. (i moved house first, and then moved my tank from outside to inside the house). They've been though that with no apparent signs of stress at all! the first move was too much for my RTG which died!
I have a feeling your dats were exposed to something form another fish. Maybe while in a shop tank. Something they had no defense against. I mean it really sounds brutal, and if you hadn't of treated it the way you have they'd all have died a long time ago right? So it can't have come from the wild. Another reason behind this thought is if it were wild, many more posters would be documenting the same symptoms in their fish.
 
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