Datnoid stability mystery

[koltsixx]

Honestly, Ive had a few.

My current 3/3 is always stable, he was stable when i bought him and Ive never seen him black . He is about 8 inches now was 6 or so when i got him. When he was in the 210 he got beat on pretty good by some cichlids. now in the 500 he has no issues. always stable. There are no other indos in the tank just a small NGT.

My last 2 I had together got them at about 3 and 4 inches. 4/4 was smaller 3/3 bigger and dominate. 4/4 was always stable . 3/3 which strollo bought at around 7 inches btw was hit or miss... Never constant either way. They lived in the same 210 my current one did with the same tankmates. He would actually get more stable when other fish would stress , wc etc. He never got stable for strollo either i believe.

4/4 I wound up trading into LFS at 7 inches or so , even in the lfs in a ten on a system he was stable till the day they sold him.

My tanks are not bare as i believe fish need to feel safe to thrive... they are usually busy with other fish moving etc.

I truly do not believe there is a way to manipulate... I do believe if you get a stable one it is likely to stay stable....

Thanks for all the info. and I have to say the coloration on that Dat in your first pic is amazing, his base really looks yellow. Every Dat I had was always beige based some lighter then others such as the one I have pictured who happened to be the lightest based Dat I've had to date, there where days where he looked almost white with black stripes.

I respectfully disagree about us not being able to manipulate a Dats stability though. As I said since stability is their natural coloration I believe there's something we must be doing that causes the instability. So I believe it's a logical assumption to believe that if we can make them unstable we should be able to influence them to be stable. Much like their breeding I think it's just a case where the factor has eluded us.

I will say it's interesting to note that strollo's hypothesis of Indo Dat's being more likely to be stable where they're the only Dat of that species in the tank may be of merit. Thus far in the thread I've always had stable Indo Dat's and never kept more then one Indo at a time, though I did mix the Indo with Silver Tigers/AT's. In the experiences you've mentioned here the Indo you kept with a NGT was stable and the 2 Indo's you've kept together one was stable and one was hit or miss. So perhaps that's one of the factors in having a stable Indo.

Good information guys. I've always leaned towards the environmental factor as a key to stability but never tried it. I'm going to go buy some fake plants tomorrow maybe and start to work on it and see what happens. And Fyi Jay- that 3/3 has been 1000% stable by himself in Lorenzo's tank. Further proving my theory that an indo by itself will always be stable.
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I think you maybe on to somethings as I mentioned in the post above. Perhaps more then one Indo per tank influences Indo's to take on Dominant and Subordinant coloration, while mixing species doesn't create the same cue. I personally still think the other environmental cues can influence stability but perhaps thus far you've hit on a more definitive influence based on what's been shared.

My opinion is the fish is not comfortable in its tank. I know they can get bullied by other Dats. I have owned a few Dats all the ones I have ever had never showed what you all call unstable stripes. I think a lot of you keep them in bare tanks. I know mine always liked to hide they liked hiding places made them feel secure. I know when they got scared or when I netted them to move them there stripe went pale. But once settled there stripes went back solid.

So if I'm understanding your post you've kept multiple Indo's at a time and all where stable? Just trying to get a clear picture as thus far I know your saying your Dats where stable and you always provided them a retreat but am unsure if your saying you've kept multiple Indo's at the same time and all of them where stable while cohabing.

 

[strollo22]

And that's exactly what I'm looking for, Kolt. The key to stable indo's in a community setting. I may go buy some fake plants today and give it a shot lol


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[FunWow!]

I understand what you're saying but I'm no longer content with the answer, "there is no answer". There's an answer to everything and I'd like to figure it out.


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I thought the same thing at point but your going to find out your fighting a battle that you can't win.... I've tried everything like many others that have been into dats. Acouple years from now we'll see if you think the same lol. Each fish has it's own brain so what may seem to work with one may not work with another. I've done plants, water temps, ph ranges, water hardness, salts, black water, bare bottom tanks, gravel, different color gravel, lighting, diming light, different foods, groups of dats, singling them, having them in with other fish, having motion in front of the tank at all times by setting up a fan going back and forth with shirts on it, driftwood, high aeration in the water, normal, all different water currents from extremely high to low and this was done over the course of 7 years with around 50 dats, st, ntts, Indo's ranging from 1inch - 18.5 ... So then it just came down to the fish itself.


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[MyGiants]

So if I'm understanding your post you've kept multiple Indo's at a time and all where stable? Just trying to get a clear picture as thus far I know your saying your Dats where stable and you always provided them a retreat but am unsure if your saying you've kept multiple Indo's at the same time and all of them where stable while cohabing.

I've kept as many as 5 together size range from 6" down to 3" I've kept them by themselfs. When I had mine they were in a 100g with lots of plants and wood.

 

[hulk181]

I've noticed that NTT are much more likely to be stable than indo so that's why I just keep NTT now. When indo are stable with thick bars, looks beautiful. But I've just had too many that were unstable.



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[T1KARMANN]

There is no answer to this stable or unstable

Let look at plants low light black background low ph high ph RO no RO bare tank drift wood on drift wood food salt

Any of the above may have a impact on one tiger but not another
But if any thing has a impact on IT NTT NGT why are ST always stable no mater what

I could take my ST or any other ST I have owned out of my tank kick them around the floor for 5 mins put them back in the tank and they would still be stable

I think unstable with IT = happy
BUT you do get some exceptions to this when they are always stable

If you place a single tiger in a tank and it's stable it maybe a defence when it's unhappy
Or it's displaying it's colours looking for a mate like other fish display colours to attract a mate to breed with

Once you start putting loads in one tank they have no reason to display colour

The truth is no one can coma along and say for sure how to solve this puzzle


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[BuffaloPolypteridae]

I've always found the opposite, especially w/ my 3 bar IT. After a gravel vac the lil guy is cowering in the corner almost completely brown. 5 minutes after I'm done he's up and about, stable.

Just to note some similarities I've seen in tanks w/ unstable dats
- Light, too much of it. must hurt dats eyes, they are quite large
- Substrate, the darker the better
- background color. Again darker seems to be better.
- low dat density (# of dats to tank size)
- Nitrate levels, lower is better

So far w/ my own ITs, I've found moonlights induce instability, outside stress (commotion in the room, gravel vac, etc), and nitrate levels.

My setup is dark, Im not bothering with lights till I can get dimmers and when I do throw a light they go unstable. I was away in Rochester for the weekend and my nitrates got up to 40-60, they were unstable. When I had the 4 bar in qt in the white and blue gravel tank it was unstable.

Normally, both of mine are very stable. They eat pellet, krill, bloodworms, red wiggler worms, and some tilapia every once in a while

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[UnstoppableJayD]

I've always found the opposite, especially w/ my 3 bar IT. After a gravel vac the lil guy is cowering in the corner almost completely brown. 5 minutes after I'm done he's up and about, stable.

Just to note some similarities I've seen in tanks w/ unstable dats
- Light, too much of it. must hurt dats eyes, they are quite large
- Substrate, the darker the better
- background color. Again darker seems to be better.
- low dat density (# of dats to tank size)
- Nitrate levels, lower is better

So far w/ my own ITs, I've found moonlights induce instability, outside stress (commotion in the room, gravel vac, etc), and nitrate levels.

My setup is dark, Im not bothering with lights till I can get dimmers and when I do throw a light they go unstable. I was away in Rochester for the weekend and my nitrates got up to 40-60, they were unstable. When I had the 4 bar in qt in the white and blue gravel tank it was unstable.

Normally, both of mine are very stable. They eat pellet, krill, bloodworms, red wiggler worms, and some tilapia every once in a while

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My tank is lit up like a christmas tree as far as light... black sand... no background (view from both sides.... stable even when i drain half the tank for wcs/.

 

[BuffaloPolypteridae]

Your lucky to have one of the ITs that never goes unstable then lol my 4 bar doesnt really go unstable even during WCs. Id imagine size has a lot to do w/ it, smaller fish being more easily stressed and messed with

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[Arowana718]

I have two indos. The dominate one seem to be UNstable while undominate one is slight more stable. But when they do fight, they both stable up like crazy.

FYI: i made the same exact thread a year ago titled "Datnoid stability mystery"

I asked to be stickied so there wont be a repost.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?435766-Datnoid-s-stability-mystery






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