Dechlorinator

[RD.]

Of course prime wants you to treat the entire tank volume..... They make more $$$$.

Actually, this isn't a case of Seachem attempting to bamboozle people into using more of their product to increase their revenue (if it was they wouldn't have created a concentrated dry powder product such as Safe), it's a case of CYA (cover your ass), so that when some numb nuts wipes out 50K worth of coral &/or fish because they didn't understand their local water conditions, or can't read a label, they can't blame Seachem. This is what happens when you run a large corporation, based in the land of lawsuits.

As Dr. Greg Morin explained in the link that I supplied in my initial comment;

"some people prefer to just add the new untreated water directly to the tank... if they do that then we recommend the amount of Prime they add be based on the total gallonage of the aquarium rather than just what they added. The "extra" amount speeds up the rate of removal."

But, at the end of the day, if what you are doing works and does not cause any problems then it is ok. Our recommendations are meant to cover a broad range of users and we tend to prefer to err on the side of being overly cautious.

Which goes directly back to exactly what I have been saying, there is no single definitive way to treat water that will fit every situation encountered by every member here on MFK.

For "some" people treating the entire tank volume (even if adding dechlor in stages) makes perfect sense, and is not a waste, but an added layer of protection for their livestock.

Some hobbyists keep very sensitive species of fish, some keep freshwater, some keep SW and the various sensitive corals & invertebrates that live within a marine system, some have heavily planted tanks, some have no plants, some keep their tank water at 65F, some keep their tanks at 88F, some have pH values as low as 4.5, some have pH values as high as 9.0, some have tap water treated with chlorine, some have water treated with chloramine etc-etc- and all of these various paramaters and values can & will affect the reaction time and toxicity of disinfectants such as chlorine and chloramine. The VAST MAJORITY of hobbyists (including here on MFK) don't even know what the level of disinfectant residuals are in their tap water as it leaves their taps.

Who here has actually taken the time to test their tap water for chlorine/chloramine levels, and for those that have what did it test out at, and is it that rate consistently year round, or does it vary within the seasons? Do you know the reaction time for the amount of water conditioner that you use within your system, based on the water volume that you change? I do, because I made it my business to know these things, and not rely on someone on MFK to lead me to the promised land.

From what I've seen over the years most people on MFK don't have the slightest clue, many don't even know if their water contains chlorine, or chloramine. They read their water conditioner label & then treat 50 gallons of water with one capful, because that's what it says on their bottle of Prime, when in reality that dosage rate is based on very specific values, and should only be used as a guideline depending on what type of disinfectant ones local water is treated with, and at what level. (mg/l)

Don't blame Seachem for not being mind readers, or for covering their arses with some legalese in a time when people are always wanting to blame someone else for their own ignorance and/or laziness.

It's for this exact reason that I posted the following info;

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?309623-Cost-Effective-Water-Conditioners

It probably should have been made a sticky .......

 

[batang_mcdo]

for me I usually add just a little more than the % of water i change,
For example, if i change 20% water, i dose anti chlorine for 30% of the water.
also I usually dose with anti chlorine into my tank, then add the tap water directly, our tap water only has chlorine.

 

[F1 VET]

Actually, this isn't a case of Seachem attempting to bamboozle people into using more of their product to increase their revenue (if it was they wouldn't have created a concentrated dry powder product such as Safe), it's a case of CYA (cover your ass), so that when some numb nuts wipes out 50K worth of coral &/or fish because they didn't understand their local water conditions, or can't read a label, they can't blame Seachem. This is what happens when you run a large corporation, based in the land of lawsuits.

As Dr. Greg Morin explained in the link that I supplied in my initial comment;



Which goes directly back to exactly what I have been saying, there is no single definitive way to treat water that will fit every situation encountered by every member here on MFK.

For "some" people treating the entire tank volume (even if adding dechlor in stages) makes perfect sense, and is not a waste, but an added layer of protection for their livestock.

Some hobbyists keep very sensitive species of fish, some keep freshwater, some keep SW and the various sensitive corals & invertebrates that live within a marine system, some have heavily planted tanks, some have no plants, some keep their tank water at 65F, some keep their tanks at 88F, some have pH values as low as 4.5, some have pH values as high as 9.0, some have tap water treated with chlorine, some have water treated with chloramine etc-etc- and all of these various paramaters and values can & will affect the reaction time and toxicity of disinfectants such as chlorine and chloramine. The VAST MAJORITY of hobbyists (including here on MFK) don't even know what the level of disinfectant residuals are in their tap water as it leaves their taps.

Who here has actually taken the time to test their tap water for chlorine/chloramine levels, and for those that have what did it test out at, and is it that rate consistently year round, or does it vary within the seasons? Do you know the reaction time for the amount of water conditioner that you use within your system, based on the water volume that you change? I do, because I made it my business to know these things, and not rely on someone on MFK to lead me to the promised land.

From what I've seen over the years most people on MFK don't have the slightest clue, many don't even know if their water contains chlorine, or chloramine. They read their water conditioner label & then treat 50 gallons of water with one capful, because that's what it says on their bottle of Prime, when in reality that dosage rate is based on very specific values, and should only be used as a guideline depending on what type of disinfectant ones local water is treated with, and at what level. (mg/l)

Don't blame Seachem for not being mind readers, or for covering their arses with some legalese in a time when people are always wanting to blame someone else for their own ignorance and/or laziness.

It's for this exact reason that I posted the following info;

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?309623-Cost-Effective-Water-Conditioners

It probably should have been made a sticky .......

I feel you, I'm sure the extra $$$ doesn't hurt lol.


Just obtain a local water quality report and base it off that.



Go S. Vettel #1 rb8

 

[RD.]

Vet ............ did you actually read this?

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?309623-Cost-Effective-Water-Conditioners

What extra $$$ are you referring to? I use Seachem Safe, the dry powder version of Prime, and have for years. A 4 KG container at the time cost me approx $75.00, and @ 2mg/l chloramine (my local water supply) that container will treat 400,000 gallons of tap water. Even with hundreds of gallons worth of water changes each week, my monthly expense in conditioner costs less than a cup of coffee at McDonalds. lol

Anyone that can't afford that is probably in the wrong hobby.

That's exactly why I posted the info in the link above, so MFK'ers could understand the differences between the different types of conditioners, and spend their hard earned $$$ more wisely. For those that only have to deal with chlorine, conditioners such as Prime/Safe are a waste of $$$, as those people can simply use sodium thiosulfate, which is dirt cheap when purchased in bulk, and will treat FAR more water than Prime or Safe.

Just obtain a local water quality report and base it off that.

Yes, that would be nice if we all lived in a perfect world - but not every member of MFK can simply obtain a local quality report, and even some of those who do, will find the info to be outdated, or nothing more than a general guideline with wide variables and not precise values, such as 1.5-3 mg/l chlorine. Also, some municipalities source their water from more than one place, so in some cases hobbyists living in the same city can have completely different values.

Not to mention the fact that some cities have fluctuating values depending on the seasonal changes. During spring run off, or periods of heavy rain they raise the level of chlorine, some even use chloramine during those periods, and they generally do not make a public announcement when these changes occur.

It seems to me, VET, the only person that you're concerened about is yourself - my comments are directed at the MFK community as a whole. I'm one of the lucky ones, my water is about as good as it gets, sourced from a glacial stream that originates in the Rocky Mountains, with a state of the art local water treatment facility that as far as disinfectant values never fluctuates one iota from season to season, or year to year.

But not everyone on MFK is as lucky as I am, and as previously stated (several times now) even if one obtains a copy of their local water quality report, and it's accurate, that doesn't give one the reaction time for their disinfectant, using their local water, under every possible condition that can be found in this hobby.

Did you miss that part?

The types of set ups, livestock and water conditions found on MFK are far too vast for anyone to play armchair quarterback for everyones situation.



To the OP - hopefully this info has helped you make a more informed decision based on your personal situation. Good luck.

 

[F1 VET]

Vet ............ did you actually read this?



What extra $$$ are you referring.

The money seachem gets for eveyone 2x dosing, that's 2x the amount of product they sell so even if they have to put hat on the label they still make more profit.



Yes, that would be nice if we all lived in a perfect world - but not every member of MFK can simply obtain a local quality report, and even some of those who do.

All I did was call the number on my water bill, asked them for a report, 3 days later it was in my mailbox, up to date and goes back 10 years with avg and such, very detailed. Pretty sure they have to provide you with one if you ask, some places send them out yearly to residents, not hard to obtain at all. I'm never said its a good idea to 1/2 dose WITHOUT knowing your levels..



It seems to me, VET, the only person that you're concerened about is yourself - my comments are directed at the MFK community as a whole. I'm one of the lucky ones, my water is about as good as it gets, sourced from a glacial stream that originates in the Rocky Mountains

Your fish swim in coors? Lucky


Did you miss that part?

I agreed with everything you've said, i only said I DON'T personally 2x dose cause I don't HAVE too. No need to get petty.....i wouldn't come here if I didn't want to learn, and I've learned a lot from you and enjoy your posts. Just a misunderstanding.

Go S. Vettel #1 rb8

 

[RD.]

I wasn't being petty, I was simply addressing the comments you left, which I assumed were directed at me seeing as they followed a quoted comment of mine. But yes, I clearly misunderstood what you were referring to.

As far as;

All I did was call the number on my water bill, asked them for a report, 3 days later it was in my mailbox, up to date and goes back 10 years with avg and such, very detailed. Pretty sure they have to provide you with one if you ask, some places send them out yearly to residents, not hard to obtain at all. I'm never said its a good idea to 1/2 dose WITHOUT knowing your levels..

Perhaps you missed this part of MFK - it's an International forum, with members from all points on the globe. Not everyone has access to these such reports, and even IF every single last member of MFK did have access to such reports - those reports were not designed with fishkeepers in mind, and they do NOT give reaction times of various conditioners vs their disinfectant, taking into account all of the vast amount of variables found in this hobby. (as previously posted)

You seem to have a difficult time understanding this?

Not everyone on MFK lives in Indy, keeps RBP, and performs a 50% weekly water change. lol

 

[F1 VET]

I wasn't being petty, I was simply addressing the comments you left, which I assumed were directed at me seeing as they followed a quoted comment of mine. But yes, I clearly misunderstood what you were referring to.

As far as;

Perhaps you missed this part of MFK - it's an International forum, with members from all points on the globe. Not everyone has access to these such reports, and even IF every single last member of MFK did have access to such reports - those reports were not designed with fishkeepers in mind, and they do NOT give reaction times of various conditioners vs their disinfectant, taking into account all of the vast amount of variables found in this hobby. (as previously posted)

You seem to have a difficult time understanding this?

Not everyone on MFK lives in Indy, keeps RBP, and performs a 50% weekly water change. lol

I was in fact addressing Americans, I don't know Europes standards and regulations let alone any other countries. But the same general rule should be applied just to be safe!




Go S. Vettel #1 rb8

 

[Ash]

I always treat my tank for the volume of the tank. I also add it during the filling process at different times and not all at once. I use a shower hook up to fill my tank.