Denitrification.

[twentyleagues]

Biocenosis baskets actually remove ammonia better then nitrate. It will tackle both but it's more effective and efficient to use them as the soul mode of biological filtration. Once they are working you remove as much of the other biomedia as you can and let them do their thing. Or if in a sump put the biocenosis baskets before other bio media so they get first crack at the ammonia using it completely so nothing is left but clean water. I have other filtration in with the biocenosis baskets and that will be the next step in my testing, removing those filters. Current testing shows no ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in the tanks where the baskets are used even after 6 weeks. Stocking varies from tank to tank as does feeding but all test the same, undetectable readings on api liquid tests.

 

[Angelphish]

This is probably the third or fourth time I've seen this topic pop up on mfk. With how many people seem to have shown interest in it over the past few years, I'd like to eventually see a sticky on denitrification.

There was a fairly in depth thread on this about a year ago in which a few members experimented with various nitrate reduction methods. Mainly algae scrubbers and denitrification filters. The filters seemed liked they could be scaled up easily, as some of the early prototypes were pvc tubes with a gallon of pumice/seachem puragin @20-60 gph. https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/diy-algae-scrubber.683050/

I've read about this type of system many times in the past; the take-away for me has always been the question "Why?"

The biggest reason I've come across is simply the time and cost involved in doing water changes for large tanks. The water costs money, and heating that new water isn't cheap either. If you can cheaply create a low maintenance addition to your filter that will reduce the frequency at which you need to do water changes, then I could certainly see a demand for it.

 

[duanes]

There's some excellent information in this thread regarding denitrification. Nitrate is undoubtedly the bane of all our lives hobby wise, and hobbyists all over are going to great pains in an attempt to reduce it, with varying degrees of success.
Pros and cons???

One of thing I was experimenting with while still in the states, was protein skimming.
Long used by salt water aquarists, it removes DOC and many other nitrate precursors from the water column, before they get a chance to breakdown to nitrate in the filter.
Below is a video of a DIY version I built for a small 500 gallon koi pond, I have used the same type indoors on lines of multiple tanks, and find it very effective.
As you can see fractionation removes billows of stuff, when I tested for nitrates on the pond they were low (@ 10ppm range), and without constant water changes (not reducing them to zero, but less than I normally would do on tanks).
koi pond fractionation

 

[Angelphish]

One of thing I was experimenting with while still in the states, was protein skimming.
Long used by salt water aquarists, it removes DOC and many other nitrate precursors from the water column, before they get a chance to breakdown to nitrate in the filter.
Below is a video of a DIY version I built for a small 500 gallon koi pond, I have used the same type indoors on lines of multiple tanks, and find it very effective.
As you can see fractionation removes billows of stuff, when I tested for nitrates on the pond they were low (@ 10ppm range), and without constant water changes (not reducing them to zero, but less than I normally would do on tanks).
koi pond fractionation

duanes That reminds me of an old thread that I posted on the same subject. I saw your design and gave it a shot, and have been using it since. I think a few other members also shared their designs there as well: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/diy-freshwater-protein-skimmer.727631/page-2

 

[Tj203]

Get a sulphur denitrater I haven't done a water change in months I add a 150 gallons of the denitrated water A-day my nitrates are about 10ppm at all times and thats with over 150 fish 2-4 inch cichlids in a 600 gallon tank

 

[Angelphish]

Get a sulphur denitrater I haven't done a water change in months I add a 150 gallons of the denitrated water A-day my nitrates are about 10ppm at all times and thats with over 150 fish 2-4 inch cichlids in a 600 gallon tank

Sulfur denitrators are really good, but I think the idea is to have something that wouldn't require new media or frequent maintenance. It would simply act as an addition to your sump; you might service it every few months, but there wouldn't be the recurring cost of new media like with the sulfur denitrator.

 

[Tj203]

Sulfur denitrators are really good, but I think the idea is to have something that wouldn't require new media or frequent maintenance. It would simply act as an addition to your sump; you might service it every few months, but there wouldn't be the recurring cost of new media like with the sulfur denitrator.

You only change the media out every year or 2 and the Sodium bicarbonate to keep the DKH up is very cheap too. And you can just tie in to your return pump for the flow. Why mess around with something that might not work when for minimal cost you can get something that is proven. I know in chemicals and water it has paid for itself. I could not do a 150 gallon water change a day. I had a continuous drip water change setup and went this rough because of the amount of water I was having to add. Now my PH dose not change more then .07 and I just add trace minerals. U can set up an ORP control and make it completely automated thats what I did I have not touched my tank except to change filter socks in well over 5 months

 

[Angelphish]

You only change the media out every year or 2 and the Sodium bicarbonate to keep the DKH up is very cheap too. And you can just tie in to your return pump for the flow. Why mess around with something that might not work when for minimal cost you can get something that is proven. I know in chemicals and water it has paid for itself. I could not do a 150 gallon water change a day. I had a continuous drip water change setup and went this rough because of the amount of water I was having to add. Now my PH dose not change more then .07 and I just add trace minerals. U can set up an ORP control and make it completely automated thats what I did I have not touched my tank except to change filter socks in well over 5 months

That's half the fun of it; Innovations aren't made by using old technology.

I will definitely look into that though, as I didn't realize you could automate your system to that degree with a sulfur denitrator. Do you need a reactor, or can I just throw a couple liters of media into a pvc pipe?

 

[Tj203]

That's half the fun of it; Innovations aren't made by using old technology.

I will definitely look into that though, as I didn't realize you could automate your system to that degree with a sulfur denitrator. Do you need a reactor, or can I just throw a couple liters of media into a pvc pipe?

I tried that way at first but because it recirculates the water it is way better. I get the fun in Tinkering with stuff putting the tank up was fun but why reinvent the wheel? Do that on something that really needs improving. This technology has been used for a long time in waste water treatment plants, it works, it is cheep and after the setup you don't need to touch it. I tried seachem matrix, I have 6 8x8x4 marine pure blocks, 4 brightwell blocks and 8kg of bio home media and my nitrates would never get below 40 ppm. Now they are never over 10 ppm. They are the same thing as a calcium reactor so you might get one used cheap. I bought the t-3 aquamaxx. I regret not doing it sooner, I have had tanks for the last 15 years now and I think this is the best thing I have ever found.

 

[esoxlucius]

Biocenosis baskets actually remove ammonia better then nitrate. It will tackle both but it's more effective and efficient to use them as the soul mode of biological filtration. Once they are working you remove as much of the other biomedia as you can and let them do their thing. Or if in a sump put the biocenosis baskets before other bio media so they get first crack at the ammonia using it completely so nothing is left but clean water. I have other filtration in with the biocenosis baskets and that will be the next step in my testing, removing those filters. Current testing shows no ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in the tanks where the baskets are used even after 6 weeks. Stocking varies from tank to tank as does feeding but all test the same, undetectable readings on api liquid tests.

I've researched the hell out of these baskets over the weekend. I found a site where some guy, in great detail, broke the whole thing down in simple to understand laymans terms. A truly eye opening and fascinating read.

And like you said, you'd need to put these baskets before your water got to your bio chamber so your baskets would get first bite of the ammonia action. I've limited space in my sump, as do many, but there is a gap for one submerged basket in my first compartment. But surely the flow of oxygen rich water through this compartment would mean the oxygen levels would be too high for the anoxic process to start in my basket? Are these baskets better suited to places within your set up where flow is slow to moderate, as opposed to fast? And one basket isn't going to do much, just where all these other baskets are going to go within my set up I don't know.

So many hurdles to overcome.