designing a low maintenance system

[J. H.]

I use the shells to buffer the ph (release minerals.) The plants I use do not need substrate, but waterflow/high oxygen around the roots is a must for almost any plant. I am not knowledgeable about growth inhibiting hormones or skimmers.
Stanzzzz7 has mentioned rabbit poop as ferts, and I intend to try it (my sister works at a petting zoo, so I just got some.) It may help with plant health & growth.
duanes runs freshwater skimmers, and is very knowledgable.
Hendre was talking about a professor who told him some stuff about those hormones.
RD. and Drstrangelove are both knowledgeable about everything.
Keeping the tank in a window with full sun helps a lot. The lights you need to get enough plant growth for this to work at all are expensive and wasteful to run.

 

[Hendre]

Interesting conversation here.

J J. H. Thanks for roping me in. The hormones do break down in tanks since they are organic compounds. But if you cram fish I doubt it'll break down fast enough to prevent effects on the fish.

In my opinion the best way for low maintenance or "easy" maintenance is something like a python hose that makes it quick and easy.

My 70 gallon is low maintenance by necessity due to devere drought but it isn't perfect. I can only do water changes maybe monthly at the moment, so I use a large amount of plants such as vallisneria, water sprite and elodea to gobble nitrates. I also feed moderate amounts instead of power feeding.

I do need to keep water changes going to remove excess tannins and boost the buffer capacity since I have very soft water.

For me the success of low maintenance tanks requires:
•Low-Moderate fish loads
•Dense planting, the faster growing the better
•Good mechanical filtration that's kept clean
•Sufficient nutrients for plants
•Shells keep the PH above 5.5~6.0
•Occasional water changes are still helpful
•Feed a good quality food for more of the nutrients to be digested.

Personally I'd use these as pointers to help improve water quality between scheduled water changes. It can't hurt

Also some planted tank people have to dose extra nitrate. But those tanks are by no means low maintenance..

 

[Richie10093]

(alerts stopped showing up in my email! any tips on how to keep them getting sent?)

Thanks for the pointers and where to look for info J J. H. ! When I get some time i will likely try to find some of those threads to do some research. The lights can be pricey and may be wasteful, but if the results could be repeatable and useful for people in drought prone areas to help maintain higher quality living conditions for their aquatic pets, I would be very happy.

Hendre , If they are organic compounds and can break down, do you know if UV light possibly could speed up the process?

I've never used a python hose, but I have heard great things about them and certainly don't frown upon them in any way! But my goal here is basically the holy grail of fishkeeping. there is a large chance it doesn't exist, but I still like the idea of pursuing minimal (once every couple months) to no water changes on a system. depending on how the answer is found, this may be able to impact wastewater treatment methods (probably not) or have other uses in large public aquariums and industrial production of fish for consumption.

The downside I have found with traditional planted tanks is the limitation of growth of the plants based on CO2 levels. that's why I started with Water lettuce since it should be moderately easily obtained and used by a lot of people. But I have been pursuing other plants as seen earlier in the thread due to them not using medium levels of nitrates to grow!

For better or worse, my tapwater is as hard as a rock. I believe out of the tap it is over 8. so, i won't have as much of a PH issue as quickly. but it certainly may get depleted over a long period of time.

For me the success of low maintenance tanks requires:
•Low-Moderate fish loads
•Dense planting, the faster growing the better
•Good mechanical filtration that's kept clean
•Sufficient nutrients for plants
•Shells keep the PH above 5.5~6.0
•Occasional water changes are still helpful
•Feed a good quality food for more of the nutrients to be digested.

Everything here is wonderful advice. However, one piece I am attempting to cut out as well is the mechanical filtration. when I can watch and properly take care of a tank, I don't mind using some floss or pads and cleaning them out a few times a week. That said, I can't expect that kind of maintenance to happen in the tank's current situation. That aspect is also often neglected by the average fish keeper. So I am working on finding ways around that as well to help cater to the not so great fish keepers as well.

Yeah... my 10 gallon planted tank taught me that one really quickly...

 

[Hendre]

Hendre , If they are organic compounds and can break down, do you know if UV light possibly could speed up the process?

It's plausible

industrial production of fish for consumption.

The amount of waste produced by commercial fisheries is often eye-watering. And aquaponics exists for that too, keep in mind those systems are not optimised for long term fish health.

The downside I have found with traditional planted tanks is the limitation of growth of the plants based on CO2 levels

Floating or emerging plants are good for this reason too, best of both worlds! Otherwise co2 and fertilizers are the recipe for low NO3

Everything here is wonderful advice. However, one piece I am attempting to cut out as well is the mechanical filtration. when I can watch and properly take care of a tank, I don't mind using some floss or pads and cleaning them out a few times a week. That said, I can't expect that kind of maintenance to happen in the tank's current situation. That aspect is also often neglected by the average fish keeper. So I am working on finding ways around that as well to help cater to the not so great fish keepers as well.

Unless you enjoy cleaning substrate (I don't) then mechanical filtration just makes life easier and helps improve water clarity and quality.

 

[Richie10093]

I will likely then start trying to find a UV sterilizer for my setup. Do you know by chance how long it should be between bulb changes to maintain an effective UV sterilizer?

Do you know if skimming actually helps with removing the hormones as well?

I believe any system should be capable of maintaining the fish long term and healthy. Especially if they are for human consumption!

Any plants you know of that are emerged that consume loads of nutrients quickly and stay close to the surface of the water?

Yeah... that's why I don't have any substrate in the system. But I will admit that the tank does tend to have some small debris that seems to stay in the water column. Most mechanical media would take care of that in no time, but it doesn't seem to bother the fish or me... so I guess I can live with it!

 

[duanes]

One of the reasons protein skimming is so popular in the salt water world (besides the fact it is easily achieved in salt tanks) is it removing dissolved organic compounds (pheromones, hormones, even algae and bacteria) before they break down into nitrate.
And salt water water changes are so expensive, compared to fresh.
My goal for nitrate is 2-5ppm, and with fractionation, nitrate removing plants, regular water changes (30-40% every other day), and low population fish stocking this has been achievable.
I tried using plenums back when they became the new thing in salt water, but they didn't make a noticeable difference in my tanks.
Refugiums with macro-animals such as tiny shrimp, snails, and other animals also help my freshwater tanks.
But if plants are to be relied upon, just as in the natural producer/ consumer pyramid, the plants must be an exponentially higher mass than the consumers (fish).
A friend of mine had an aquaponics facility, using plants to keep water quality high for Tilapines, and to realize this, 90% of the building was dedicate to plants.

 

[Richie10093]

That is honestly a very aggressive water change schedule! The only reasons I have ever heard of doing more than that is for raising fry or trying to get discus big fast! very impressive goal to make consistently.

Are there any macro animals in particular that you try to stock in most of your systems? Scuds? Daphnia? others?

I agree strongly with the plant mass needing to be very high. I am trying to do what I can to tip that in my favor given the space I have to work with. Any tips to make it better are appreciated!

 

[Hendre]

That's not too bad for water changes. And if you want any fish to grow fast you keep that water pristine.

I have seed shrimp with my cherries, they just chill in there. Can't say they do much

 

[duanes]

I used scud, cherry (rishi) shrimp, and trumpet snails (to keep substrate for going anoxic.)



and cultivated lots of algae as a nitrate reducer and food for the tiny animals

 

[Richie10093]

Were the seed shrimp intentional or accidental?

Were your scuds intentional?

I thought about going for a freshwater algae scrubber type setup, but I was afraid that it would be more difficult to maintain properly without the growth dying back.