Designing the Ultimate Filtration System

[AW7020]

Thanks Mr RoadWarrior for this detailed look into the various strengths of filter design and combining them into the ultimate system. This certainly gives me a lot of ideas on the filteration system for my up coming indoor pond.

To see whether i understand your concepts correctly let me put it in the following lines.
1. A mechanical prefilter to take/remove suspended material and heavy items
2. A Bakki Shower second stage to remove the fish bio loads.
3. A Third stage of sandbed for further detox of Bio items.
4. A Forth stage to remove dissolved organic waste using weed or similar vegetation
5. Stage Five is optional or perhaps a carbon bypass alternate path may be added to
clear up any other pollutants if required

Will certainly have to see whether i could include at least stage 1, 2 and 4 into the upcoming pond build. Till then thanks for the clear explaination and grouping of the various sections into an understandable format.
Cheers.

 

[crashinc25]

I applaud the effort you put in to this post. Very nice. I just have one possible improvement; kind of. I have been dealing more and more with a natural clay called calcium montmotillonite. There are numerous studies on this stuff and a lot of it has to do with champion Koi pond use among hundreds of other uses. They have found this mineral composition to be one of the biggest contributing factors in the "mud ponds" of Japan, where such massive filtration systems really aren't used or practical. It is proven to eliminate toxic waste products, bacteria and decomposed organic matter suspended in the water. I agree with the use of coarse and fine grain sand, but would urge more of us to use this mineral composition as a base layer.

 

[Miguel]

I will do a deep sand bed today ( agree with Crashinc25, and will look for that clay of which I had heard of ).
I have large clay vases full of gravel in the sumps mid compartment but will add one big box full of sand (around 5 inches deep ).

Now Roadwarrior brought my mind again to the always lingering thought of the Baaki contraption. I see no way to include it in a normal sump system.

What could perhaps be done ( if one has the space alongside the sump ( as opposed to on top of the sump as Roadwarior suggests ) is to mount the Baaki system on the side, on top of a separate water container, with water being pumped in from the sump ( from one of the firts compartments ) onto the contraption and showering down through the media into the bottom of said container.
From there it would be pumped back into the sump ( into the last compartment so as to be pumped right back again into the tank ).

Could this work?

Dr Joe??

 

[crashinc25]

I love this Baaki contraption idea, but I think it's affects are on a big scale process. This makes me think of a natural waterfall. This huge 50+' drop for water to be cleansed and enriched with oxygen, splashing off rocks/boulders and forming a mist cloud. The idea just screams clean water. Scale it down and it's really just a little drip system. I could see it working, but not at the same performance level.

 

[Miguel]

A very apt description.. I am afraid you may, in the end, be right, yes.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I love this Baaki contraption idea, but I think it's affects are on a big scale process. This makes me think of a natural waterfall. This huge 50+' drop for water to be cleansed and enriched with oxygen, splashing off rocks/boulders and forming a mist cloud. The idea just screams clean water. Scale it down and it's really just a little drip system. I could see it working, but not at the same performance level.

Many believe that the height of the Bakki Shower is part of why it's so effective. There's a lot more vertical distance for trickling or (showering) water to take in oxygen and also release nitrogenous gases into the atmosphere. However, as many trickle systems are closed inside containers, they don't have the same degassing effect that the shower does.

In my filter design, a Bakki Shower could easily be replaced with a trickle filter. However, based on the research I've done, it appears that there's a massive performance advantage with trickle systems that are tall instead of squat. In fact, it seems that the height is as or more important than the total volume of filtration media.

The real advantage of the Bakki Shower is the massive volume of oxygen that it infuses into the water. Oxygen is the fuel used by nitrifying bacteria to process waste. It's like gasoline for a car. The Bakki Shower essentially gives the bacteria more fuel in the form of oxygen, which results in more processing "horsepower" for the bacteria colonies.

When you combine this with one of the premium filter media, which have so much more surface area than even bioballs do, you have a winning combination.

Bakki Showers aren't practical for everyone, but they don't have to be especially big or expensive for a home aquarium. Their biggest disadvantage is that they can be quite a bit louder than most trickle filters.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Thanks Mr RoadWarrior for this detailed look into the various strengths of filter design and combining them into the ultimate system. This certainly gives me a lot of ideas on the filteration system for my up coming indoor pond.

To see whether i understand your concepts correctly let me put it in the following lines.
1. A mechanical prefilter to take/remove suspended material and heavy items
2. A Bakki Shower second stage to remove the fish bio loads.
3. A Third stage of sandbed for further detox of Bio items.
4. A Forth stage to remove dissolved organic waste using weed or similar vegetation
5. Stage Five is optional or perhaps a carbon bypass alternate path may be added to
clear up any other pollutants if required

Will certainly have to see whether i could include at least stage 1, 2 and 4 into the upcoming pond build. Till then thanks for the clear explaination and grouping of the various sections into an understandable format.
Cheers.

Yes, you summarized it well. The reed bed and the sandbed are primarily there to address the issue of nitrate build-up, which is a problem in most fishtanks. The sand bed promotes the growth of anaerobic bacteria, which feed on nitrates, and the reeds also use the nitrate as fertilizer for their own growth.

Also, for ponds, I've seen schematics for very inexpensive protein skimmers that are very effective, and they just deposit the effluent on the ground outside, so you never have to clean it up. Makes a huge difference, and apparent very easy to construct.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I will do a deep sand bed today ( agree with Crashinc25, and will look for that clay of which I had heard of ).
I have large clay vases full of gravel in the sumps mid compartment but will add one big box full of sand (around 5 inches deep ).

Now Roadwarrior brought my mind again to the always lingering thought of the Baaki contraption. I see no way to include it in a normal sump system.

What could perhaps be done ( if one has the space alongside the sump ( as opposed to on top of the sump as Roadwarior suggests ) is to mount the Baaki system on the side, on top of a separate water container, with water being pumped in from the sump ( from one of the firts compartments ) onto the contraption and showering down through the media into the bottom of said container.
From there it would be pumped back into the sump ( into the last compartment so as to be pumped right back again into the tank ).

Could this work?

Dr Joe??

I don't see why it wouldn't work. As long as the Shower is functioning in-line in your filtration system at some point, and you're getting the benefit of its function, there are any number of configurations that would work just fine.

 

[AW7020]

Yes, you summarized it well. The reed bed and the sandbed are primarily there to address the issue of nitrate build-up, which is a problem in most fishtanks. The sand bed promotes the growth of anaerobic bacteria, which feed on nitrates, and the reeds also use the nitrate as fertilizer for their own growth.

Also, for ponds, I've seen schematics for very inexpensive protein skimmers that are very effective, and they just deposit the effluent on the ground outside, so you never have to clean it up. Makes a huge difference, and apparent very easy to construct.

Thanks for the additional suggestion. Am attaching a pic to show your inputs on my up coming pond filter design. I am actually doing a write up of the progress here in this link. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131676

Your post certainly came at the right time for me. Once again my thanks and appreciation.

 

[cchhcc]

What about oxidation of trace elements and the (possible) loss of alkalinity? The second could be managed with a thoughful choice of substrate, but the trace elements would still be depleted in most situations. Any thoughts?