Did my wife just say that...???

esoxlucius

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Didnt say i hate them, just dont really like them... so dont take it as a jab towards teslas per se...

At the end of the day everyone has their preferences regardless if its about cars, fish or whatever and i personally prefer petrol over electric even having driven a tesla before...

Who knows maybe one day i’ll change my tune but for the moment at least, no thanks...
Give it a few decades, maybe even sooner, and your "preference" of car will be taken away from you because petrol and diesel driven vehicles will be obsolete. All we'll have is electric to choose from.
 

Fat Homer

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esoxlucius esoxlucius im sure that day will eventually get here and yes, at that point i’ll be forced to give them up or at least keep one in my garage as a memory lol...
 

Ulu

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. . .your "preference" of car will be taken away from you . . .
Javol! . . . but only for the good of humanity! Like when we outlawed booze.

We can get rid of gasoline and diesel and it won't stop alcohol and bio-fuels!
Fuel bootleggers will rule!

How about a car that runs on human feces. Endless fuel supply. Nobody would steal it. :grinno:

Tesla looks like an attractive technology today, but wait until people figure out how to remote-hack a Tesla. :D

:idea: Here's a free idea for a Sifi video:

Some kid learns how to hack the self-driving Teslas after nation-wide 5g makes real-time remote driving practical.

He starts a dark-web game where people pay him to steal other people's cars at night, and race each other in real time.

Then somebody realizes they can use the cars to steal power, commit larceny, kidnap people, take revenge, commit acts of terrorism etc..
 
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Fat Homer

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Here's a free idea for a Sifi video:

Some kid learns how to hack the self-driving Teslas after nation-wide 5g makes real-time remote driving practical.

He starts a dark-web game where people pay him to steal other people's cars at night, and race each other in real time.

Then somebody realizes they can use the cars to steal power, commit larceny, kidnap people, take revenge, commit acts of terrorism etc..
that sounds like a movie i’d wanna watch...
 

krichardson

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Wow...

Lots of Tesla haters here!!

The Tesla model 3 is the safest car ever reviewed by the NHTSA, by a fairly decent margin (with the Tesla model S and X the next two safest cars ever). There have been 2 people burned in a Tesla that I have heard of, both of whom were going very high speeds and crashed into a tree. And yes, it sucks for them, but the reality is looking at overall statistics it is still the safest car to be in on the road. Also, side note, the recent one was in a model S, not a model 3, which has the handles you can't manually open - the model 3 door handles are functionally no different than any other car door handle (I will concede the model S door handle does open some safety issues, which may be perhaps why they abandoned it for the model 3).

And yes, Tesla also raises fascinating questions about technology, i'll bring up autopilot before someone else does. There have been multiple people killed by self-driving cars, both car occupants and one pedestrian. And yes, it sucks for those people, but the statistical reality is there is enough data out there to show that Tesla's on autopilot are 9 times safer than a normal car - so yes there will be people that die, but far fewer than would have died without it.

As far as putting out the fire goes, it is a fascinating bit of chemistry. A "normal" fire with wood / gas / oil / whatever, needs the fuel source but also oxygen and heat, and are thus fairly easy to put out because you just need to take away one of those three things. A battery fire has its own fuel, its own oxidant, and makes it own heat - you can't deprive it of anything it supplies everything it needs itself. So you don't actually put a battery fire out, you just let it burn and contain the fire from spreading elsewhere.

Your comment of battery longevity is also quite simply wrong, unless you are basing it off 7 year old data from the original Teslas. Model 3 batteries are designed and tested to last between 300,000 and 500,000 miles, mostly depending on charging style (if you super charge to 100% full, it'll be closer to that 300,000 mile mark) - but even at that point by "last" they mean is down to 80% its original range. The first model 3 to pass 100,000 miles has the first real world data, and the battery has 98% of the original range. The powertrain itself is also tested to last over 1,000,000 miles, because the reality is in an electric motor and no transmission there is nothing that really wears out. So based on your example of driving a car 175,000 miles, you'd have to buy 6 gas cars to last the life of a single tesla with 1 replacement battery (so call it 6 cars to 1.5 cars). That's also ignoring the fact you would have saved $70,000 in fuel costs driving the Tesla for a million miles, and a likely 6-figure sum on oil changes and other maintenance. Also, they also had a very exciting lab breakthrough that should enable the batteries to last over 1,000,000 miles as well, see below article:


However talking about a normal person driving a million miles is kind of pointless, considering if you buy an average 16 year old a shiny new Tesla they will most certainly die of old age before hitting a million miles. Battery longevity is at the point where it doesn't matter for normal people if they make it better, it only matters for taxi drivers, semi-trucks (when they are available in a few years...), but most important utility scale energy storage. Speaking of Australia, the largest Tesla battery installation has been wildly successful, and is saving ratepayers a lot of money compared to the alternative of installing a gas peaker-plant. Starting now and accelerating over the next few years utility scale battery installations will go from niche to standard, and they will not only be good for the environment but they will save money in the process.


Honestly, like I said, people that buy any new sedan that isn't a Tesla simply made a mistake, and most of them because they simply don't understand how amazing Tesla's have become. I will happily sit here all day and discuss it, or just go to a Tesla show room and with 1 test drive you'll likely buy one that day - just make sure to put me down as a referral ( https://ts.la/brian90886 )
Lol no need to sit and watch an infomercial after reading all of that.Those cars are nice and all but I like what I like for now.
 

Ulu

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I think perception is a big deal here.

If the Tesla had started out as a basic inexpensive car you can charge anywhere, which anyone can repair, for lower class people, I would feel more kindly about the whole thing.

Instead, it starts as a powerful heavily styled, uber-complicated, expensive, hi-class car, that nobody but Tesla can repair.
And it gets taxpayer funding.

Wealthy people already have the best and cleanest cars. It's the millions of poor folks chugging around in our old gas-guzzling polluters we need to worry about.
 

Yoimbrian

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Am I really the only Tesla fan on these forums? Someone back me up here!!!

If you want to know the TRUE purpose of full self driving, google "paradise PD tesla scene". It's not safe for work...or kids...or anyone with decency...Perhaps all of you will appreciate that, based on your opinions of Tesla...

As far as hacking a full self driving car, yes its certainly possible, and yes it'll likely happen at some point. I know at least 2 crime TV shows have done it. I feel that's a different issue than electric vs gas car, since there is no reason you couldn't make a gas car full self driving as well, not to mention a lot of cars (Cadillac, Honda, Audi I think) have "advanced cruise control" that give the car enough ability that if you hacked those they could make you crash as well, so I really don't think you can hold that against Tesla.

As far as perception, Elon Musk laid out the "Master Plan" a full decade ago. Basically the goal all along was to start with a super sexy high end car to make people realize electric cars can be fun, use that to get investors interested in bankrolling a company that consistently lost money for 10 years straight, and spend that money to do research and scale up to make cheaper and cheaper cars, and bonus convince the rest of the industry to follow - and its essentially going to plan. If they had instead started with a low end car with technology of 2009 it would have essentially been a golf cart, and no one would have cared.

I also love your statement about getting "poor folks chugging around in our gas-guzzling polluters" comment, and I would fully support a massively large scale problem to convert all cars to electric. Personally I feel the best way to do that is to convert all new cars to electric as soon as possible, and then let used cars trickle through the market. Norway has banned gas cars starting in 2025, a few other countries by 2030, and a bunch more by 2040 (though that is so far out its meaningless, I'm guessing they'll move that target up). But even banning by 2025 means it'll be until 2040+ before there are very few gas cars left, which is a long ways away. Chuck Schumer (top Democrat Senator who has no real power since Republicans control the Senate, for those non-Americans on here) just referenced a bill he wants to pass that sounds like its a gas for electric trade in that'll get 63 million gas cars off the road, and personally I hope it's something like "cash for clunkers", but instead of destroying the traded in car they offer free trades to lower income people so they can "trade up" their old gas car for a newer gas car....and then destroy that older gas car.

Don't worry about not having the option of buying an electric car if you really are attached to engine noises. There are plenty of companies that instead of embracing the future (like VW primarily, but Ford sort of) are suing to block the above laws that are trying to save the planet so they can keep cranking out obsolete cars. It won't work forever, but it'll buy them time. And there are plenty of politicians that are in the pocket of lobbyists, for example the ever loyal (to whoever bribes him) Governor of Wisconsin who recently veto'd a law that would let Tesla sell cars in Wisconsin, which BY TOTAL COINCIDENCE I'M SURE came right after a "donation" from the auto dealer lobby. I mean, to me that's obscenely telling of the FACT that electric cars are quite simply better and even they know it - when gas car companies KNOW they can't compete on fair ground, they literally bribe politicians to block competitors from even having the option of selling.

Which makes your comment about "choice" funny, because right now you DON'T have the choice to test drive a Tesla in Wisconsin (or Texas, or a few other states) because gas car companies bribed politicians.
 
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Ulu

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The golf cart statement is nonsense. It is clear that you are so emotionally invested here that you invent nonsense to support the idea of the Master Plan.

And most of the barrier to choice is economic, and not geographic. Most gas cars are cheap to buy compared to Teslas. Wealthy folks can always buy in the next state over.

Musk's plan is a plan for the wealthy to spend money and look cool. Now they can do so, and also believe that they are wonderful people for saving the planet too.

I am 100% in favor of electric cars. But you'll never save anybody with these overpriced luxury vehicles.
 
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