rallysman;2052764; said:
Thank you for phrasing it that way
As we disagree on this issue completely I believe in live food and feed live as regularly as possible. And believe the non live is the only way regardless, to be complete BS.Difference between feeders being eating whole and "quick" vs. being ripped apart
- Thread starter dbcb314
- Start date
Thank you for phrasing it that way
As we disagree on this issue completely I believe in live food and feed live as regularly as possible. And believe the non live is the only way regardless, to be complete BS.I'm too worn out to debate, but yah market meat is an option - I didn't think of that.cichlaguapote;2053063; said:
Guerillah;2052983; said:
If your Cichla are eating 35 feeder in one day they are in my opinion depending on how many you have.. large enough to start feeding every 1-4 days
And will be just as healthy as any. Training onto shrimp or anythign else is done a few ways.. but one still requires live food..
cichlaguapote;2053063; said:
Come on, you gotta observe the difference in "eagerness" with which fish accept various food. Three tanks, three examples:
- My RTCs and Gars eagerly fight for pellets and fish and prawns. I donot see any particular preference. Oscar eats pellets and does not chase feeders at all.
- Two silver aros and an asian do not chase feeders (i have not seen them eat any to date) instead eating crikets and Hikari pellets very readily (no delay - no spitting out before eating again). These carnivores live happily with 2 redbelly pacus and 2 kois ... in fact, the three aros have to hurry for food. (Considering to relocate pacus and kois ...they are growing very fast on cricket diet)
- Arapaimas eagerly chases down any fish that is put in their tank and are first at Hikari pellets. Jardini and silver aro eat feeders but are not particular at chasing anything - they do fight for pellets. <sigh> delhezi does not chase anything but will eat anything small enough and near enough. Now, for the crikets, jardini and silver love those = eat no spit out. Arapaimas eat everything that is thrown in - they gauge themselve, BUT they tend to spit out crikets first and then eat again (sometimes spit again). I suppose it is good for bichir who always waits at the bottom.
Moral of the story? There is a clear preference for various foods by various fish. As loving fishkeeper, i do like to give food that fish enjoy (with all precautions taken of course for disease control).
PS: your dog probably would not eat rabit even if you give it. Kill it - yes. Eat - no.
Tongue33;2053107; said:If your Cichla are eating 35 feeder in one day they are in my opinion depending on how many you have.. large enough to start feeding every 1-4 days
Training onto shrimp or anythign else is done a few ways.. but one still requires live food..
Well thats with 3 of them so not sure.. I will start trying dmacks way but was just curious what other methods people used.
Starvation... mainly. Or feed the food you want if they don't eat it... Pull it with a net and try again tomorrow. So still starvation.
How large are they?
Going to carry the rest of this conversation to your Profile as to not further derail.
How large are they?
Going to carry the rest of this conversation to your Profile as to not further derail.
Ultimately it is starving the fish into eating non-live. Some require stimulation, like dangling and trawling a piece of shrimp.
Can be time consuming because you have to do the stimulating or just have to clean up the uneaten food.
My gars and rtcs took to pellet quite readily (no starving necessary) and very late in their lives (when i realised that i am not gonna pay for life feeders all the time). Luckily silver aros and arapaimas start eating from the begining without the need to starve them (Hikari pellets seem to agree with them).
Can be time consuming because you have to do the stimulating or just have to clean up the uneaten food.
My gars and rtcs took to pellet quite readily (no starving necessary) and very late in their lives (when i realised that i am not gonna pay for life feeders all the time). Luckily silver aros and arapaimas start eating from the begining without the need to starve them (Hikari pellets seem to agree with them).
I haven't got any objections to feeding live fish to my charges. I do have a problem when people feed fish feeders that are too large subsequently causing the feeder to suffer unduly. However, that's besides the point.
Most fish that are predatory have some capacity to crush with their throats, their gill rakers have rough or toothed pads on top, and you'll often see them moving their throats in and out rapidly to scale and crush their prey. Granted, it's still far from an instant death, but far better than repeated dismemberment and panic.
Remember too, that fish don't really want their prey to be chewing on their insides once they get there either, so they do their best to disable the prey beyond that capacity.
Large, predatory fish eat other fish in the wild, and at times, their instincts are too difficult to over-ride. If they can be weaned onto artificial foods, great, but if not, feeders it is.
One point that another poster on here mentioned was that eating a whole fish would be unpleasant for the pets. I don't think that's necessarily true, in fact, that whole fish (if in good health), would provide all the right nutrients required for the pet to grow, heal etc. moreso in fact than a lot of the cheaper lines of pellets etc., or even the cocktails of frozen food some feed to their pets.
Frozen and dry foods are certainly more convenient for the owners, but caution must be exercised to provide all the essential nutrients to the pets. I don't believe a fish's enthusiasm for a certain food type indicates the fact that it's absolutely better for the fish e.g. Discus getting constipated on a diet too heavy in bloodworms. It's quite easy for larger animals to die of malnutrition without ever starving.
So, in summary, feed feeders of a suitable size to your pets if need be, and do not labour under the mis-guided view that pellets/dead food are the only way to go about giving your pets what they need. Above all else, it is our pets we're looking after, not just our own comfort.
Most fish that are predatory have some capacity to crush with their throats, their gill rakers have rough or toothed pads on top, and you'll often see them moving their throats in and out rapidly to scale and crush their prey. Granted, it's still far from an instant death, but far better than repeated dismemberment and panic.
Remember too, that fish don't really want their prey to be chewing on their insides once they get there either, so they do their best to disable the prey beyond that capacity.
Large, predatory fish eat other fish in the wild, and at times, their instincts are too difficult to over-ride. If they can be weaned onto artificial foods, great, but if not, feeders it is.
One point that another poster on here mentioned was that eating a whole fish would be unpleasant for the pets. I don't think that's necessarily true, in fact, that whole fish (if in good health), would provide all the right nutrients required for the pet to grow, heal etc. moreso in fact than a lot of the cheaper lines of pellets etc., or even the cocktails of frozen food some feed to their pets.
Frozen and dry foods are certainly more convenient for the owners, but caution must be exercised to provide all the essential nutrients to the pets. I don't believe a fish's enthusiasm for a certain food type indicates the fact that it's absolutely better for the fish e.g. Discus getting constipated on a diet too heavy in bloodworms. It's quite easy for larger animals to die of malnutrition without ever starving.
So, in summary, feed feeders of a suitable size to your pets if need be, and do not labour under the mis-guided view that pellets/dead food are the only way to go about giving your pets what they need. Above all else, it is our pets we're looking after, not just our own comfort.
