Differences in PH ?

[ktrom13]

The main reason why one should never use the drip method, is due to the fact that the water in the bag IS funky. Drop & plop is the safest manner in which to acclimatize fish, no matter where they come from, or how long they have been in the bag. A small swing in temp will have little to no affect on fish either, especially if one is going from cooler to warmer, which is typically the*case. pH shock is non existent, so unless the TDS is way off there's no real concern there either. I have seen fish imported from all points on the globe, Africa, SE Asia, Europe, etc, with some of these fish valued in the thousands of $$$ (for a single specimen) and every last one of them went straight from the bag, straight to a holding tank, and I have never seen a single mortality from doing so.*

The term "pH shock" is a total misnomer.*

What one really needs to pay attention to is TDS (total dissolved solids). Moving fish from water with low TDS to high TDS is usually tolerated fairly well, where as moving a fish from high TDS to low TDS can often cause a great deal of osmotic stress, even death.*

If one looks at this from even a common sense approach, if what some people stated about pH shock was true, most fish being imported in from outside of the country would be dead long before you opened the bag, as the vast majority of exporters do not use long term pH stabilizing agents when they bag the fish, and after 24-48 hrs the pH in those bags has definitely dropped, in many cases by a significant amount.*

In shipping situations this is a good thing, as the lower pH protects the fish from ammonia. Once the bag is opened, and C02 escapes, the (fish safe) ammonium, converts to ammonia, which can be toxic to fish at higher pH values. Hence the reason that most importers pay more attention to the water temp of the bag than anything else, and in the vast majority of cases simply open the bags, net the fish out, and drop them into their holding tanks. Experienced commercial importers learned a long time ago that the quicker you get the fish out of that toxic soup in a bag, the better.

I agree with most of this.

Unfortunately I have to disagree with one part. I believe in PH shock. It won't happen from a PH of 6 to 7 but something along the lines of 5-8. A big difference ( say 2.5+ level of PH) can and will have an affect on the fish.

Central cichlids are known to be hardy and I highly doubt that your PH will affect your fish. If your really worried, go measure your TDS. That's the real killer in everyday "drop and plop".


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[RD.]

I believe in PH shock. It won't happen from a PH of 6 to 7 but something along the lines of 5-8. A big difference ( say 2.5+ level of PH) can and will have an affect on the fish.

Agreed, but that kind of drastic swing in pH is almost never the case when discussing this subject on online forums. Generally speaking if/when any type of shock is experienced, it's almost always from a swing in TDS, not pH.

 

[neutrino]

Agreed, but that kind of drastic swing in pH is almost never the case when discussing this subject on online forums

+1 Experience has taught me that changes of a few tenths are no problem for most fish. There might be some very sensitive species that are exceptions, so I like to be cautious of making blanket statements about that. It might simply be a matter of old habits die hard, but I still prefer to be cautious about going from basic to acidic, at least beyond a pretty small range, as in I wouldn't do any more than a little over 7 to a little under 7, just my cautious nature.

The problem with some hobbyist belief/experience/observation is it's so easy to attribute what we observe to one factor when in reality the actual mechanism is something else entirely. In any case, beyond the traditional hobbyist beliefs, there's apparently some fairly substantial study demonstrating many species of fish can handle sudden ph changes without much problem (reference below), including day/night swings. So the absolute necessity of rock steady ph is also apparently a myth for many fw species. Again, not all fish species have been tested and there may well be more sensitive species that are less tolerant, so I'm not making a blanket statement to cover all species.

pH Requirements of Freshwater Aquatic Life (especially scroll down to Effects of Diurnal Fluctuations and Rapid pH Changes....

Edit-- Even with the above, going on the idea that survival is one thing and stress is another, I still prefer to minimize possible stress by not subjecting fish to fast pH changes of more than a few tenths, unless there's some urgency to moving the fish, like getting a fish out of bad water.

 

[neutrino]

I should quickly add-- my comment above simply accounts for changes in pH within a fish's acceptable range as an isolated factor. I'm not talking about other factors in a tank affected by pH like conversion of ammonia to ammonium (or the reverse), effect on nitrifying bacteria activity, redox, etc.

 

[RD.]

I still prefer to minimize possible stress by not subjecting fish to fast pH changes of more than a few tenths, unless there's some urgency to moving the fish, like getting a fish out of bad water.

I concur, although IMO in the case of the OP's fish I doubt that any serious osmotic stress would be involved. The post I was quoted on above was in regards to acclimating shipped fish, which is a whole nuther ball game.

Considering the fact that most CA's come from more alkaline waters, personally if it was me I would buffer both tanks using crushed oyster shell or crushed coral in my filters, to raise the mineral content, overall hardness, and the pH to approx 8.0 For the vast majority of CA cichlids I see no benefit in keeping them in acidic water.

 

[neutrino]

Considering the fact that most CA's come from more alkaline waters, personally if it was me I would buffer both tanks using crushed oyster shell or crushed coral in my filters, to raise the mineral content, overall hardness, and the pH to approx 8.0 For the vast majority of CA cichlids I see no benefit in keeping them in acidic water.

My thoughts, exactly. Since my well water runs something like 6.4 to 6.8 (it varies), personally I use baking soda to raise (and buffer pH) to mid 7s, whatever my substrate. My main kapampa tank (Eco-Complete cichlid sand) may buffer somewhat higher than my other tanks (pool filter sand), but close enough that I've transferred fish between them with no problems at all.

 

[Aquanero]

If you use your tap water for water changes and have been right along, do a 50% water change in both tanks and transfer the fish. The fish will then adjust to the new water conditions as they slowly change either up or down depending on which tank it's transfered to.

 

[JDempsey1980]

Thanks for all your help guys, greatly appreciated. Put a lot into perspective for me.