Discus
- Thread starter SGomez109
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I believe the Poster is referring to the wound above the eye, not to the black specks.
Yes, that does look like HITH, not terribly advanced.
In my experience, HITH in discus and angels (I don't know much about it in other fish) is most often associated with (I am NOT saying caused by) combinations of sub-optimal diet, sub-optimal water quality, and to an extend stress caused by more dominant cohabitants (other discus) in the tank (aka, bullying). Usually it is reversible if not too advanced (such as in the case of your fish), simply by improving the aforementioned conditions. Although those conditions are usually not the actual cause, they usually are the catalysts for HITH to progress. And then, there are all kind of secondary infections and issues that can exacerbate the problem, causing terrible disfiguration in the animal, and sometimes death. Remarkably, often the fish continues to act somewhat normally for long periods of time, despite horrible-looking pits and disfiguration. To me, with discus, the main thing is insufficient water changes, even beyond what one may think is enough.
You stated to have had a streak of 'bad luck' with your discus. What was that about? Perhaps if you describe that better and provide additional into in your maintenance routines, issues that can be improved may be identified.
Although I have not kept discus for quite a few years now, I did so for years, and salvaged a number of beautiful wild fish that had been mistreated and affected by HITH, as well as internal parasites and bullying. As an example, the picture below is of a wild that came to me with HITH and improved dramatically under my care. You may still see some scars (unfortunately I don't have pictures of how it came to me, or how it look better years later). In the picture, it still looks somewhat skinny. But he recovered, lived with me for a number of years, and spawned several times.
I hope this helps. For discus, the mantra is 'if in doubt, go do a big water change'.
Good luck. You have a beautiful fish!
Yes, that does look like HITH, not terribly advanced.
In my experience, HITH in discus and angels (I don't know much about it in other fish) is most often associated with (I am NOT saying caused by) combinations of sub-optimal diet, sub-optimal water quality, and to an extend stress caused by more dominant cohabitants (other discus) in the tank (aka, bullying). Usually it is reversible if not too advanced (such as in the case of your fish), simply by improving the aforementioned conditions. Although those conditions are usually not the actual cause, they usually are the catalysts for HITH to progress. And then, there are all kind of secondary infections and issues that can exacerbate the problem, causing terrible disfiguration in the animal, and sometimes death. Remarkably, often the fish continues to act somewhat normally for long periods of time, despite horrible-looking pits and disfiguration. To me, with discus, the main thing is insufficient water changes, even beyond what one may think is enough.
You stated to have had a streak of 'bad luck' with your discus. What was that about? Perhaps if you describe that better and provide additional into in your maintenance routines, issues that can be improved may be identified.
Although I have not kept discus for quite a few years now, I did so for years, and salvaged a number of beautiful wild fish that had been mistreated and affected by HITH, as well as internal parasites and bullying. As an example, the picture below is of a wild that came to me with HITH and improved dramatically under my care. You may still see some scars (unfortunately I don't have pictures of how it came to me, or how it look better years later). In the picture, it still looks somewhat skinny. But he recovered, lived with me for a number of years, and spawned several times.
I hope this helps. For discus, the mantra is 'if in doubt, go do a big water change'.
Good luck. You have a beautiful fish!
Thank you so much, FJB. Ive originally had 12 discus in my 120 gallon for about 4 years. Suddenly my three healthiest died back to back within two month. One had bloat that and passed away, another had scrapes then I believed died of shock and another from what I believe was internal parasites. My fish are super fat and vibrant. I do my best to do weekly water changes religiously. Ive taken out alot of the drift wood because I was starting to think they were injuring themself on it when they would chase. I’m not sure whats going on anymore. Thank you for your advise. You wild discus is gorgeous.
You are welcome. I hope it helps. But I would say this -
In my current tanks (not discus, which I consider more demanding), I change 50-70% water every Sunday. When I was into discus, each tank got a water change daily (probably 30-50%), while removing feces and left over food.
It is true that back then there were many fewer choices of prepared foods that are less polluting than the then-staple beefheart.
Many breeders in Asia use little or no filtration, but do nearly 100% daily water changes, sometimes smaller changes multiple times per day (because they use smallish tanks).
In my current tanks (not discus, which I consider more demanding), I change 50-70% water every Sunday. When I was into discus, each tank got a water change daily (probably 30-50%), while removing feces and left over food.
It is true that back then there were many fewer choices of prepared foods that are less polluting than the then-staple beefheart.
Many breeders in Asia use little or no filtration, but do nearly 100% daily water changes, sometimes smaller changes multiple times per day (because they use smallish tanks).
I agree with the others that say HLLE, which is a chronic condition due to stress, usually caused by water quality issues,
You say 30-40 gallon water changes, how often.
On a 120 gal 30-40 gallon water changes twice per week would be proper to me.
But if its once per week or even less, I could see how this type malady could sneak up.
You also say water is perfect but didn't give readings, some people consider a nitrate reading of 20 ppm is perfect.
I consider a 20ppm nitrate reading for any length of time, unhealthy for most cichlids (including discus), and might be enough to bring on HLLE.
HLLE is akin to skin cancer in humans as far as how it manifests.
You may run around in the sun as kid and a young adult with no symptoms, but then around age 40 or later melanoma spots start to become visible , not because you walk out in the sun that day, but because of long term exposure over years.
A similar thing occurs in fish, high nitrate doesn't show up immediately, but over time as a fish ages, long term exposure to those elevated nitrates take their toll.
Oscars often show no signs as semi adults, but right around the time they get adult size, and should look their best, often hole in the head rears its ugly head.
If your nitrates are less than 10ppm, then another form of stress may be the cause, but......
You say 30-40 gallon water changes, how often.
On a 120 gal 30-40 gallon water changes twice per week would be proper to me.
But if its once per week or even less, I could see how this type malady could sneak up.
You also say water is perfect but didn't give readings, some people consider a nitrate reading of 20 ppm is perfect.
I consider a 20ppm nitrate reading for any length of time, unhealthy for most cichlids (including discus), and might be enough to bring on HLLE.
HLLE is akin to skin cancer in humans as far as how it manifests.
You may run around in the sun as kid and a young adult with no symptoms, but then around age 40 or later melanoma spots start to become visible , not because you walk out in the sun that day, but because of long term exposure over years.
A similar thing occurs in fish, high nitrate doesn't show up immediately, but over time as a fish ages, long term exposure to those elevated nitrates take their toll.
Oscars often show no signs as semi adults, but right around the time they get adult size, and should look their best, often hole in the head rears its ugly head.
If your nitrates are less than 10ppm, then another form of stress may be the cause, but......
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did you introduce new fish without quarantine? discus raised from different environment can bring new unusual bacteria that your current discus need to adjust to.
