Dither fish are getting SLAUGHTERED!

[RustyGrizz]

So about 2 weeks ago I moved my red tiger mota in her own tank due to aggression issues in my community tank. After that she became very skittish and didnt observe her feeding at all. So in another post some of you had suggested putting some dither fish in with her. I have a breeding pair of convicts I decided to try out and put them in with her and the convicts hid behind the filter intake the whole time and never eat for almost 3 days so I put them back in the community tank and they were instantly better. Some of you had also suggested giant danios but I can't find any where I am and with covid issues I can't get them shipped to me. So I asked a local jag/dovii breeder what he uses and he also uses tiger barbs but a big school of a dozen in his tanks. So I bought a dozen on Thursday, its now Monday and I'm down to 3. During the day the RTM will casually chase them but not pursue and she has gotten significantly better with her skittish ways however she still wont actively feeding when the lights are on. At night is when the slaughter happens, every night there are less and less fish in the morning and the ones that do survive are shredded. I tried adding more cover for them and places for them to go where she can't get them but it doesn't seem to be helping. My only concern was my RTM is about 4" and the barbs are about 1". I'm wondering if barbs or a different dither fish would work if they were bigger like closer to 2-3" or if i got a half dozen of convicts instead(or something similar in aggression that would hold their ground better)

 

[Gourami Swami]

Unfortunately it seems like she may just kill anything you put in. Doesn't look like a large enough tank to put any larger tougher cichlids with her IMO, and the tank is her territory already, so any new cichlids would be at a disadvantage, and she will attack them. Large quick dithers may be possible but it seems like she will kill them as well. May have to just be a solo fish. Maybe some floating (or just high-up) plant coverage would help her be less skittish? You can suction cup plastic plants to the top of the tank as well.

 

[robmcd]

It's the blue gravel (I won't even call it substrate). I'd be pissed as well.

All kidding aside, have you tried some more natural decor?

 

[jjohnwm]

It's the blue gravel (I won't even call it substrate). I'd be pissed as well.

All kidding aside, have you tsried some more natural decor?

No kidding; I looked at that pic and then immediately had to go down to the fish room to kill a handful of livebearers just to soothe my nerves...

Dithers are intended to defuse and redistribute aggression between other fish...or to calm nervous fish and perhaps help them relax enough to eat, or to display themselves. Good dithers are either big and fast enough not to get caught and eaten, or if the main fish is big enough, dithers can be very small and not worth her expenditure of energy to chase. Your cichlid is small enough that I doubt you can find dithers too small for her to eat.

So, unfortunately, you don't have dithers; you just have very expensive feeders. Unless you're okay with that, it might be time to end this experiment and just accept a one-fish tank. More wood, more cover, especially floating plants which will also diffuse the light, and patience might be the only way to have the fish become less skittish. Maybe remove the other fish, put this one on a 3 or 4 day fast, and then introduce some food early in the morning. If she is hungry enough she may come right out to eat. If not, remove the food; don't give her a chance to feed at night. Then try again the next day.

 

[RustyGrizz]

Unfortunately it seems like she may just kill anything you put in. Doesn't look like a large enough tank to put any larger tougher cichlids with her IMO, and the tank is her territory already, so any new cichlids would be at a disadvantage, and she will attack them. Large quick dithers may be possible but it seems like she will kill them as well. May have to just be a solo fish. Maybe some floating (or just high-up) plant coverage would help her be less skittish? You can suction cup plastic plants to the top of the tank as well.

I did originally plan on her being a solo but with the skittish behavior I wanted to help relax her and thought the dither fish would help which they did... until they got eaten haha but the floating plants is a good idea I have a bunch of extra fake plants I can float to see if that helps, thanks for the tip!

 

[RustyGrizz]

It's the blue gravel (I won't even call it substrate). I'd be pissed as well.

All kidding aside, have you tried some more natural decor?

Yep I'm kinda feeling the same, thought it would look nice then i put it in and regreted it lol I might try to filter the larger blue out and leave just the white

 

[RustyGrizz]

No kidding; I looked at that pic and then immediately had to go down to the fish room to kill a handful of livebearers just to soothe my nerves...

Dithers are intended to defuse and redistribute aggression between other fish...or to calm nervous fish and perhaps help them relax enough to eat, or to display themselves. Good dithers are either big and fast enough not to get caught and eaten, or if the main fish is big enough, dithers can be very small and not worth her expenditure of energy to chase. Your cichlid is small enough that I doubt you can find dithers too small for her to eat.

So, unfortunately, you don't have dithers; you just have very expensive feeders. Unless you're okay with that, it might be time to end this experiment and just accept a one-fish tank. More wood, more cover, especially floating plants which will also diffuse the light, and patience might be the only way to have the fish become less skittish. Maybe remove the other fish, put this one on a 3 or 4 day fast, and then introduce some food early in the morning. If she is hungry enough she may come right out to eat. If not, remove the food; don't give her a chance to feed at night. Then try again the next day.

Yep I think I'm going to take the blue out and leave it just white for now, she did thrive in the community when it was just white.

The dither fish did seem to relax her but also provided a meal and as you stated they are now just expensive feeders. I've removed them already and took them back to the fish store. I had some rocks in there as a cave but seemed like she never wanted to venture out but maybe with floating plants this will help.

Also thanks for the tips on the feeding ill give that a try as well.

So plan B ill remove blue gravel and add floating plants and see how it goes from there!

 

[Kelly_Aquatics]

somthing I do is sit infront of my baby bichirs tank and when im not their prop a pillow on a chir infront so they get used to having somthing infront of the tank
helps with shyness

 

[silverrhino8]

I agree with what's said above. I've owned RTMs before and they're highly territorial and aggressive so it's likely to kill anything put into its new territory. If she's skittish it might just be that she needs some time to get used to the tank and grow a bit more. It looks like you have enough coverage in there for hiding spots but definitely go ahead and try adding some more if you want. I'd be patient and just maintain your water quality above all else (if that's achieved your fish won't die). Some fish change behaviour every now and then or even over long periods of time. I had a female jag that was pretty aggressive at 4 inches but then mellowed out and became very passive by the time she was 6 inches (unusual yes, but still possible).

On the subject of dithers...you could try to get silver dollars. I've had them before and a lot of large cichlids leave them alone. But I can't speak to mixing RTMs with those. I agree though that the dithers need to be much larger for them to work but you are constrained by your tank size so there aren't many options.

 

[Oscar Mike]

Yep I'm kinda feeling the same, thought it would look nice then i put it in and regreted it lol I might try to filter the larger blue out and leave just the white

That should be fun lol. Shame the dithers didn't work rtm's are relentless, more than even jags and closest parachromis to dovii in territorial aggression IME. I tried making them associate me with food by only approaching the tank to feed or vac but it never really made them less skittish like the bigger tank did.

What I would suggest is to interact with the tank as much as possible so she gets used to it. Move things around, gravel vac as often as possible... if the tank isn't in a high traffic area the hiding will only get worse. While keeping them in the 240 in my dining room they swam freely in the open. In a 100 in my fishroom they darted for cover as soon as the door opened.

Currently I have a group of tiger silver dollars in the 240, I've been moving the driftwood and plants around so often they aren't scared of my hands at all. Actually touched one last night didn't even move.

Where is she hiding in the tank? Maybe try removing the pvc and move the driftwood to the middle so she stays out of the corners where you can't see.