DIY Co2 injection - need answers!!

[mrfuzz]

Hello All,

I just picked up a new 36 gallon euro bowfront.. Wanted something to fill-up space in new apartment. I am going to try something different - doing a planted community tank - rather than the norm mbuna =).

Anyways, been doing alot of reading on DIY Co2 systems / injections -- This will hold me over (co2 tank setups are too costly at this given time).

Questions..

I am confused on how to properly "inject" or well diffuse the co2 into the tanks...

can I just use a SMALL ceramic air stone that is set into the tank - coming directly from the Co2 bottle??.. Or do I need the the following.


Co2 Reactor / Diffuser - http://cgi.ebay.com/CO2-Reactor-Reg...514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a4c94ae3a

OR

http://www.marinedepot.com/Turbo_Jet_CO2_Reactor_CO2_Reactors_for_Aquariums-House_Brand_%28CO2%29-CO5111-FICORA-vi.html

With those.. How exactly are the utilize..

A line from the Co2 bottle - To the diffuser -- DO I need a mini filter to push water through the reactor???? This is the part I am most confused about...

I have also seen the following products.

MR AQUA GLASS BLOWN DIFFUSER / bubble counter - http://www.marinedepot.com/Mr._Aqua..._for_Aquariums-Mr._Aqua-AZ1913-FICOBC-vi.html

OR would this device make it all simpler? -
Red Sea CO2 Reactor 500


How are these properly utilized??


Reason I ask.. I will like to have a "flush" scene of plants to go with the colorful community tank with drift wood..

I plan on using ECO Complete substrate for the plants, gravel for upper substrate and to dose with FLORISH. along with Root tabs occasionally / trace minerals.


If someone can put me in right direction with some illustrations? that would be awesome.

 

[mrfuzz]

anyone?

 

[Clay]

You can make your own DIY diffuser that will work as well as any store bought one. It's just a pvc tube with bio balls (or something to agitate the water) with an input for water, input for CO2, and an output to the tank. I would say to check the DIY forum, but I have no idea what's happening in there with the reorganization.

 

[tharsis]

Hey I think I can help

With DIY CO2 on large tanks (>30 gallons) you generally will want more than one bottle working simultaneously. It is hard to keep high concentrations of CO2 as well as maintaing a steady rate. The number will depend on a few factors mostly revolving around how much CO2 is consumed by the plants:

1 - the type of plants you have
2 - the quantity of these plants
3 - the type of lights you have (better lights means faster plant growth which results in more CO2 consumption
4 - how you diffuse the CO2

One of the key things about DIY CO2 is minimizing fluctuations in CO2 availability. Large swings will lead to algae problems...using one bottle leads to large swings as the batch winds down. Using three bottles and changing one out every three weeks means that at any given moment you have one bottle at the beginning of its production, one in the middle and one near the end. This method ensures a stable flow of CO2 into the tank and will provide high enough concentrations to be useful for plant growth.

The next most important aspect is how you diffuse it. It is very difficult to maintain high concentrations of CO2 using the DIY method therefore it is VERY important to maximize the efficiency that the CO2 is diffused into the tank. I do not recommend passing the airline through one of those ceramic bubblers, or through a water pump to break them up into bubbles while these methods may work for smaller tanks the efficiency is too low for larger tanks like yours. I highly recommend an inline diffuser like the one you showed in the marine depot link. With this set-up you can connect to the outflow of your canister filter (if you have one) which means there is less clutter in your tank. You could also hook up a maxijet to it and have it in your tank...but it does take up a lot of space. You could also make one for pretty cheap using PVC tubing...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/22296-rex-reactor.html

This thread is great for understanding how an inline reactor should work. The idea is to get the CO2 to dissolve in the water before it reaches your tank.

You also want as little surface agitation as possible, DIY CO2 is really hard to do if you have a HOB because the increased surface agitation results in a lot of degassing. If you have a canister you will want to point it down from the surface to minimize the agitation.

http://agustiono-aquarium.blogspot.com/2008/09/treatise-on-diy-co2-systems-for.html

This is a fantastic article all about it with diagrams and detailed explanations behind the different methods.

But, I highly recommend an inline Rexx style reactor with 3 x 2L bottles for CO2 generation.

If you have any more questions let me know

 

[mrfuzz]

tharsis >> Thank you for your input and thoughts. I will take this into consideration.


Unfortunantly. I am using a HOB (AquaClear 70) Going to use this for the filtration in the 36 gallon.. I heard there are mods for it to lower surface agitation?

Furthermore, say I was to purchase that diffuser.. Would this work to break up the co2?

Power Jet Internal Filter - http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/6437/product.web


Im going to / Or well plan on using two(2) large juice bottles - Or better jet the large Hi-C bottles.


Later on down the road - depending on my sucsess - I will implement a CO2 gas system (5lb tank or even a co2 paintball tank??)

example: http://www.marinedepot.com/Deluxe_C...uariums-House_Brand_(CO2)-CO2K-FICOCY-vi.html

 

[tharsis]

Its not the end of the world if you run a HOB, it just means you have to overcompensate by adding more CO2 and ensuring efficient diffusion. Just passing your CO2 through something like the one in your link will not be very efficient, you will have tons of little bubbles flying around the tank but most will reach the surface and degas before they dissolve. I am unsure about the mods, but I would certainly try them if I were you.

Try a set-up like this, you will need a maxijet waterpump, the output fits well with those gravel vaccuums. Drill a small hole to put the CO2 line through add a small air bubbler and put it in your tank. This will dissolve your CO2 beautifully.

Here is a picture of my tank with the internal reactor (on the right hand side) before I switched to a canister filter and an in-line reactor. It worked really well, but I had to go with 3 CO2 bottles to compensate for the excess surface agitation from the HOB's.

Two large containers should be good though since your tank is a little smaller. Another tip, really make sure that the seals on your T - connectors are good. Silicone the crap out of all the connections to eliminate any leaks.

 

[mrfuzz]

awesome diagram -- just what I was looking for hehe =)..

I was leaning more towards the Red Sea 500 Reactor. Simply because it would be cost effective.. $48 w/ free shipping.


Although, I was also considering a Mini jet pump: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11465/product.web

With the custom Reactor (purchased) After shipping and parts it will be close to the $48 mark.

As the Red Sea Reactor has a built in pump.. I have read decent reviews from people using a DIY CO2 system.


Ideally, When funds come available. I will purchase the RED SEA PAINTBALL CO2 system.

Or just the Paintball Co2 tank fitments -- Not sure -- Thats if I purchase the Reactor 500 first =).


Here is what the tank setup is going to be:

36 Gallon Bow Front (still unsure If it will be big enough =))
AquaClear 70 w. Biomax + Sponge + SMALL ammonia pouch

2" of ECO-Complete substrate
Inch or so of gravel

PLANNEd STOCK LIST:
7 NEON Tetras
3 Red Finned tetras
3+ bossani.. Rainbos
Rasboras.
2 Gourami's.
3+ Shrimp or two(2) Cory's.

Not sure what else would be nice.

PLANT STOCK:

JAVA MOSS
JAVA FERN??
darf baby tears
darf Sagittaria -- back of tank
Ludwigia Pers (mid tank)
Melon Swords.

No idea what else.... Not to mention some fake Drift wood / bark + river rocks.

 

[tharsis]

I don't think that mini jet pump will would be good for a reactor because the plug is in the same direction as the output.

Yeah the red seas reactor looks pretty slick, I think you asked in your first post how it would work... So I added some labels to the image. My only concern is that the chamber is so small...and that CO2 may escape into the tank decreasing the efficiency of diffusion.

I personally could not justify spending $50 on it but I am cheap and I like DIY stuff


EDIT: I like your choice of fish, the gouramis might freak out your rainbows though. I think the corys would be good, shrimp probably would not last very long in the tank.

As for plants, the dwarf sag doesn't really get bigger than 5" so it is better for midground or foreground.

 

[mrfuzz]

hah yah. Can you point me to a link of your maxi jet?

Furthermore, your DIY reactor.. did you just use a small gravel filter and cap the end off??

pics or it didnt happen!.

The information is great, I am learning and i cant wait to put everything together... waiting for my stand to be built.

Will introduce plants first then fish.

 

[tharsis]

Here is the powerhead that I used.

http://www.petco.com/product/109837/PETCO-Power-Head.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-productdetail_2-_-PETCO%20Power%20Head-109837

http://www.lnt.com/show_product/114...ffiliate&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_term=500775

^this one works as well also can be bought at petco

Yeah I used a gravel vacuum thingy and jammed the output of the powerhead into the top (where you would connect the hose). At the wide opening I stuffed some polyester fibrefill (from walmart) which then acted as a water polisher as well.