Do fish have feelings?

[VLDesign]

Not all living creatures experience the same levels of emotions and feelings, that's a fact. Their biology just simply doesn't allow for it.

Based on what factual information other than once again comparing what we know about humans as the baseline for the "Facts"?

Humans are way too arrogant when it comes to understanding much of anything outside of our own bodies.

We cannot fully understand their biology without being able to communicate with them. That is a fact.

The best we can do is compare what we THINK is going on based on what we know about our own biology. That is a fact.

Bottom line is just because our biology or physical beings are designed one way doesn't mean that all animals who are not the same do not have the same levels of feelings, or physical functionality.

A good example is weather animals see color or not. The biggest "scientific" answer is that most animals do not have the specific color cones in the eyes that can detect colors. But this is once again based on the human eyes design. Just because we require different cones for color doesn't mean that another animal didn't evolve in a different way or is designed differently to allow for color using less cones.

Point is we simply do not now the answers and never will. It a scientific guess at best. It doesn't make it true.

 

[Lissaspence]

That is exactly why I posted the artical about behavoral study on monkeys and pidgens. Pidgens have a vastly differnt anatomical brain make up than we have but they have recently proven to be capable of cognitive thinking which we didn't think was possible. That was a very good post VLDesign and I completely agree with you.

 

[mgk]

whats your definition of feelings?
i think they have fear and with that stress, if you equate that with sadness or frustration the yes. They recognize patterns, with that the ability to equate certain things or people with food or fear. They have primal desires which all living things have such as to eat. With those desires and ability to recognize patterns they seem to respond to people or persons.

If your asking if they are meat robots, then no I don't believe they are. Insects and crustaceans are meat robots, when you injure them they have no knowledge or appearant care to that fact. Fish on the other hand are aware of the own body state.

 

[knifegill]

Insects and crustaceans are meat robots, when you injure them they have no knowledge or appearant care to that fact.

Really? If you rip off a beetle's leg, it doesn't mind? I'd have to say that's not true, as I was an evil child and killed many small forms of life. They writhe in apparent agony and try to ambulate away from the place it occurred.

 

[mgk]

Really? If you rip off a beetle's leg, it doesn't mind? I'd have to say that's not true, as I was an evil child and killed many small forms of life. They writhe in apparent agony and try to ambulate away from the place it occurred.

Ive injured a few shrimp and bugs by accident, as soon as the initial threat is gone they seem to go back to what they were doing, eating in most cases. I haven't injured every species so i suppose there could be some that are smarter

 

[kwstas_original]

Fish can understand everything...try to talk to them some times..

 

[Lissaspence]

whats your definition of feelings?
i think they have fear and with that stress, if you equate that with sadness or frustration the yes. They recognize patterns, with that the ability to equate certain things or people with food or fear. They have primal desires which all living things have such as to eat. With those desires and ability to recognize patterns they seem to respond to people or persons.

If your asking if they are meat robots, then no I don't believe they are. Insects and crustaceans are meat robots, when you injure them they have no knowledge or appearant care to that fact. Fish on the other hand are aware of the own body state.

Well, the reason I posted this thread was because of all the too small/overstocked tank discussions. I don't think that physical injury should be the only way to determine if a tank is too small or overstocked. I believe that fish can be happy/satisfied or sad/unsatisfied. Most people who think that over stocking is cool seem to think that fish aren't capable of being unhappy and therefore if they are physically ok than that is all that matters. So I guess I was just curious where everyone stood on this. Also it's just an intresting topic to me...

 

[knifegill]

Well, if and only if excessive unnatural stress always leads to disease, then fish which are bothered by close quarters will show it eventually. In an 'asian-style' tank with pristine water and docile tankmates, maybe a crowded fish can actually be content, as long as it has room to swim to and fro. But I'd never imagine a fish in too small of a tank being stress-free, even if all other factors were in the positive.

 

[Lissaspence]

In an 'asian-style' tank with pristine water and docile tankmates, maybe a crowded fish can actually be content, as long as it has room to swim to and fro.

I read somewhere recently (I think it was in a thread on here) that in overstocked tanks the normally agressive fish release a hormone that reduces aggression due to their living conditions. This is why people are able to keep all these fish together with out problems. I'm not sure if that is true but I would think that being in a kind of extream environment like that would be detrimental in some way even if we don't have proof yet. If fish do have feelings and they are typically very territorial and then are put into a situation that forces them to change all their basic behavior I would think that would be very stressful and/or make them unhappy but that is just my theory on it.