Do jewels suffer from empty nest syndrome?

[Matteus]

I have a pair of jewels that I had originally bought to breed for feeders. Needless to say after about 2 weeks of taking care of the fry I started to get pretty attached to them and started to lean in a direction of not feeding live fish anymore. I ended up selling the majority of the fry at an auction and to my lfs.

When the fry started to get to a half decent size they started biting the father. He was a champ and would just grin and bear it. It made me nervous that he would just have enough of it some day and eat them all, so I put a divider in the tank and kept them separate.

I figured that if I separated them the parents would spawn again. They didn’t do this but instead maintained their ferocious protective behaviour of the juvies. When I would put my hand close to the tank she would slam into the glass hard to protect her young from me. She would jump out of the water to bite me.

The lfs said the babies needed to be 1.5” in order to gain store cred on them so I had to keep them for almost 2 months to get the smaller ones up to that size. Meanwhile mom is still over protective and not spawning with dad even though they have their perspective privacy.

So the day finally came for them to go to the store. I scooped them up and took them in, and did a thorough cleaning of the tank and filter after I got back. While all this is happening my hob filter stopped working all together. I knew the impeller was a bit fried but was putting it off to replace it. So I had to run out to get a new filter while the tank was sitting in limbo. Got the new filter but just transferred all the previous filters media instead of the fresh stuff.

Since all these shenanigans the jewels have been extremely shy and scared of me. They hardly eat, and refuse to come out of hiding if I am in the room. They were a drab greyish purple colour with hardly any jewels showing for almost 2 weeks. Now they are starting to colour up a bit back to red. They will eat but flee with purpose whenever they see me. They hardly come off of the substrate or swim around. But they seem to be in decent health as long as I’m not around. The whole time this peculiar behaviour has been going on she has been very plump, I’m assuming with eggs, looking like she is ready to spawn again. So I am trying to make sure they eat a very healthy and protein rich diet. So I drop food and leave the room to ensure they go for the food.

I’m just wondering if anyone else here has experienced this with jewels or if this is a typical fish behaviour when separated from 2-3 month old fry that were in the same water.

 

[duanes]

Many cichlid fry will start eating the slime coat, then into the body of the parents (usually father first) if they are not getting sufficient feedings throughout the day. In nature there is constant grazing from algae all daylight hours, and from the micro animal life that lives within algal forests.
I have had haitensus fry eat gaping holes in the male parent, so I try to feed as many meals s possible throughout the day, and encourage algae growth everywhere in fry tanks, and/or bring in rocks I have had sitting in containers outside in the sun to grow algae.

you can see fry picking at the parent below.

Cichlids are fairly advanced, as far as fish go for brood care. and also have pretty good memories for things like nets that have removed their progeny, or things they are attacked by, so you should not be surprised by the fear they now exhibit.

 

[tlindsey]

I have a pair of jewels that I had originally bought to breed for feeders. Needless to say after about 2 weeks of taking care of the fry I started to get pretty attached to them and started to lean in a direction of not feeding live fish anymore. I ended up selling the majority of the fry at an auction and to my lfs.

When the fry started to get to a half decent size they started biting the father. He was a champ and would just grin and bear it. It made me nervous that he would just have enough of it some day and eat them all, so I put a divider in the tank and kept them separate.

I figured that if I separated them the parents would spawn again. They didn’t do this but instead maintained their ferocious protective behaviour of the juvies. When I would put my hand close to the tank she would slam into the glass hard to protect her young from me. She would jump out of the water to bite me.

The lfs said the babies needed to be 1.5” in order to gain store cred on them so I had to keep them for almost 2 months to get the smaller ones up to that size. Meanwhile mom is still over protective and not spawning with dad even though they have their perspective privacy.

So the day finally came for them to go to the store. I scooped them up and took them in, and did a thorough cleaning of the tank and filter after I got back. While all this is happening my hob filter stopped working all together. I knew the impeller was a bit fried but was putting it off to replace it. So I had to run out to get a new filter while the tank was sitting in limbo. Got the new filter but just transferred all the previous filters media instead of the fresh stuff.

Since all these shenanigans the jewels have been extremely shy and scared of me. They hardly eat, and refuse to come out of hiding if I am in the room. They were a drab greyish purple colour with hardly any jewels showing for almost 2 weeks. Now they are starting to colour up a bit back to red. They will eat but flee with purpose whenever they see me. They hardly come off of the substrate or swim around. But they seem to be in decent health as long as I’m not around. The whole time this peculiar behaviour has been going on she has been very plump, I’m assuming with eggs, looking like she is ready to spawn again. So I am trying to make sure they eat a very healthy and protein rich diet. So I drop food and leave the room to ensure they go for the food.

I’m just wondering if anyone else here has experienced this with jewels or if this is a typical fish behaviour when separated from 2-3 month old fry that were in the same water.

I've had the same experience with Pelvicachromis Pulcher. When ever they would get ready to spawn again the protective instinct would always kick back in.

 

[Matteus]

Many cichlid fry will start eating the slime coat, then into the body of the parents (usually father first) if they are not getting sufficient feedings throughout the day. In nature there is constant grazing from algae all daylight hours, and from the micro animal life that lives within algal forests.
I have had haitensus fry eat gaping holes in the male parent, so I try to feed as many meals s possible throughout the day, and encourage algae growth everywhere in fry tanks, and/or bring in rocks I have had sitting in containers outside in the sun to grow algae.

you can see fry picking at the parent below.

Cichlids are fairly advanced, as far as fish go for brood care. and also have pretty good memories for things like nets that have removed their progeny, or things they are attacked by, so you should not be surprised by the fear they now exhibit.

Thank you for sharing this. I hadn’t known about the fry eating the slime coat. So it seems as if it was good that I separated them then. Funny I felt like I was feeding them too much at the time, I didn’t want to pollute their water. I would feed a very small amount every time I would walk by them so they would almost always have a bit of food. When the fry were in the divided side I was doing 25% wc every 2-3 days to make sure they stayed as healthy as possible. Wanted them to grow fast.

 

[Matteus]

I've had the same experience with Pelvicachromis Pulcher. When ever they would get ready to spawn again the protective instinct would always kick back in.

Is there anything I can do to help them along this process? Change the decore, keep lights on/ off or something like this? So far I have been keeping lights out more often than usual and try not to scare them with sudden movements. I usually show myself to them as they are getting fed so they associate me with that then leave them so they have their privacy.

 

[tlindsey]

Is there anything I can do to help them along this process? Change the decore, keep lights on/ off or something like this? So far I have been keeping lights out more often than usual and try not to scare them with sudden movements. I usually show myself to them as they are getting fed so they associate me with that then leave them so they have their privacy.

What you have stated and adding dither fish would bring them out more. Personally witnessed this in a aquarium with a pair of Apistogramma. I added a group of 10 Brown tail pencil fish and my Apistogramma don't hide and are far more active. The dither will make them feel secure.

 

[Matteus]

What you have stated and adding dither fish would bring them out more. Personally witnessed this in a aquarium with a pair of Apistogramma. I added a group of 10 Brown tail pencil fish and my Apistogramma don't hide and are far more active. The dither will make them feel secure.

I feel like if I put anything else in with them they will just kill it

 

[tlindsey]

I feel like if I put anything else in with them they will just kill it

Ok if you change your mind a group of Tetra may work. I personally would add them after I rearranged things in the aquarium first.

 

[duanes]

Thank you for sharing this. I hadn’t known about the fry eating the slime coat. So it seems as if it was good that I separated them then. Funny I felt like I was feeding them too much at the time, I didn’t want to pollute their water. I would feed a very small amount every time I would walk by them so they would almost always have a bit of food. When the fry were in the divided side I was doing 25% wc every 2-3 days to make sure they stayed as healthy as possible. Wanted them to grow fast.

Most fry need many small meals per day, but massive amounts all at once can be problematic, because their digestive systems have not fully developed enough to handle gorging, like adults often can.
Your feeding to much at a time may not only pollute water, but be harmful physically causing blockages, especially with prepared or meaty foods.
The cichlids that spawned in my ponds, (those that I "never" fed at all) always seemed to do better with the plethora of algae and micro animals, even with the predation from dragon fly larvae and the like, when I'd pull them in fall, there were always many and very healthy. Maybe the predation by insects was a good thing, allowing only the strongest to survive, and doing the culling for me.

Above you can see depressions in the mud the Australoheros fry have carved out

the out door tank above was never fed, and at the end of summer, hundreds of fry were pulled


and a variety of food always seemed available, the fry just had to work a little harder to get it

 

[Matteus]

So these guys are colouring up now, and eating even with me around again. They aren’t looking as depressed for sure and she is still nice and plump. Maybe they will go for round 2?..