I gave up on trying to keep chichlid communities. For me it never works. Someone always trys to claim the tank for themselves and is either too aggressive for everyone else or not aggressive enough to handle the fish they are picking on once that fish retaliates. Seen it work on here for allot of other members for me it never panned out. Like other members said its hard to tell what the adult versions of your fish will act like. The constant moving fish between tanks became to much of a headache for me.
Does overstocking work in CA?
- Thread starter LogiBear
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I know you know more than I do, RD, but I don't think this is true. Africans (Malawi) are mouthbrooders, and only really need to defend a spot to spawn. If you talk to any rift lake keeper, you'll notice their tang tanks have much less fish in them. This is because tangs breed like SA/CAs. If there is another fish where they think it is a threat to their brood, they will fight to the death. This may be possible with such fish, but you need to leave room for the fish to be ale to stay well clear of any breeding pairs.
Just like I said.
Yeah, I always thought that was the reason people keep SA/CAs and tangs instead of Malawi.
The full quote was;
"It depends on the fish, and the size of tank. All community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different. Can it be done, absolutely, can it be done where the fish aren't getting punked on, and most days are calm seas for the most part, absolutely. It takes some skill, and enough fish smarts to know when something needs to be tweaked. No different than keeping a tank full of large aggro African cichlids, same concept, same techniques applied. Buddy's tank is a prime example of this style of set up working successfully long term.
http://monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/mostly-amphilophs.651068/
Can one do this in a 75 gallon tank, with larger CA species? Doh, no! Those types of tanks never work out long term. Never."
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That comment started with ------> "It depends on the fish, and the size of tank. All community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different."
My comments are based on 1st hand experience, with SA/CA as well as numerous Rift Lake species. It's all about balance, and that balance can be achieved in a number of ways, some examples I have already described - such as all male tanks. Did you bother to look at Buddy's all male Amph tank? I posted a link to his tank because that is a classic way that millions of people have successfully kept African cichlids - an all male display tank. Remove females from the equation and half the aggro battle is already won.
Fish kept in glass boxes that are forced into unnatural conditions, will often demonstrate unnatural behaviour that would typically never be seen in the wild. Jim keeps some of his CA/SA tanks fairly tight, and because of that fish tend to learn to accept one another in very close spaces, even when breeding.
Jason's 265 posted previously, and again below, is another prime example of how one can successfully keep large groups of aggro cichlids together. It's not only a large tank, but it's also a very busy tank where there are enough fish to reduce specific individuals from being punked on. Another classic manner in which many Rift Lake cichlids are kept.
BTW - both Malawi and Tangs will not only defend spawning locations, but many will also defend feeding locations. So in a glass box, pretty much all cichlids can and often do become hyper aggressive over territorial situations. Simply dropping food in a tank can trigger some fish into attack mode.
"It depends on the fish, and the size of tank. All community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different. Can it be done, absolutely, can it be done where the fish aren't getting punked on, and most days are calm seas for the most part, absolutely. It takes some skill, and enough fish smarts to know when something needs to be tweaked. No different than keeping a tank full of large aggro African cichlids, same concept, same techniques applied. Buddy's tank is a prime example of this style of set up working successfully long term.
http://monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/mostly-amphilophs.651068/
Can one do this in a 75 gallon tank, with larger CA species? Doh, no! Those types of tanks never work out long term. Never."
.....................................
That comment started with ------> "It depends on the fish, and the size of tank. All community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different."
My comments are based on 1st hand experience, with SA/CA as well as numerous Rift Lake species. It's all about balance, and that balance can be achieved in a number of ways, some examples I have already described - such as all male tanks. Did you bother to look at Buddy's all male Amph tank? I posted a link to his tank because that is a classic way that millions of people have successfully kept African cichlids - an all male display tank. Remove females from the equation and half the aggro battle is already won.
Fish kept in glass boxes that are forced into unnatural conditions, will often demonstrate unnatural behaviour that would typically never be seen in the wild. Jim keeps some of his CA/SA tanks fairly tight, and because of that fish tend to learn to accept one another in very close spaces, even when breeding.
Jason's 265 posted previously, and again below, is another prime example of how one can successfully keep large groups of aggro cichlids together. It's not only a large tank, but it's also a very busy tank where there are enough fish to reduce specific individuals from being punked on. Another classic manner in which many Rift Lake cichlids are kept.
BTW - both Malawi and Tangs will not only defend spawning locations, but many will also defend feeding locations. So in a glass box, pretty much all cichlids can and often do become hyper aggressive over territorial situations. Simply dropping food in a tank can trigger some fish into attack mode.
RD.
, i did not mean to knock you. I read your post. I looked at those tanks. Yes, all male appears to work. It can be done. SA/CA and tangs do not lend to this as well as mbuna do.This is true, I have had fish get along for a long time, and then, as soon as fresh or live food was offered, rip each other to shreds in front of me.
I apologize for any hurts I caused.
No worries amigo, my skin is uber thick. I just didn't understand what your specific point was? I was speaking in general terms.
When I had an all male African tank set up it wasn't with male mbuna, it was large haps, most of them being carnivores/piscivores. That tank ran fairly smooth for several yrs but I had to always watch closely and be prepared to shuffle fish around if required.
Bottom line is, as originally stated, all community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.
When I had an all male African tank set up it wasn't with male mbuna, it was large haps, most of them being carnivores/piscivores. That tank ran fairly smooth for several yrs but I had to always watch closely and be prepared to shuffle fish around if required.
Bottom line is, as originally stated, all community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.
Hi!!
Everything im about to post hasnt happened, and more than likely wont. Its more me just wondering about some stuff, and wanting to see if anyone could give me some answers backed up by a bit of logic.
So, at pretty much every LFS ever. You walk in, see that 75 in the center of the room. It has like 3 Oscars, a Red Devil, maybe a Flowerhorn... Pair of Cons and a Jack Dempsey.
Overstocked. Duh. But alive?
Is the reason for this:
-no territorial boundaries
-spread out aggression
-not quite fully grown fish (although big enough to be territorial and kill)
Or something else?
Could i replicate this at home, carefully monitored, as a legitamate setup, where they can live out their daily functions and not kill each other (i know about Rouge fish... Is there a big chance of that happening?) or would it be impossible?
Take out maintenance and filtration... Would the fish be able to get along?
And more important to me: would they still be able to show some personality, or would they be brain-dead?
Thanks
IMHO, you can overstock but not in a tank that size. For example I think a single Oscar would be fine in a 75 gallon tank. However when you add other big cichlids like a FH, Red Devil for example the water quality becomes bad and the fish will stress. Plus having a pair of Convicts is a super bad idea, I am surprised they don't take up half the tank when they breed.
For example in my 240 gallon, I have Synspilium, Bay Snook, Crabro, Venustus, Black Shark, Livingstoni, JD, GT, Texas, Malawi Eye Biter, Calico Convict, and a Salvini. But the width, length, and filtration of my tank accomodates my fish, plus I do a water change atleast twice a week. With a tank the size of a 75 gallon they would have to clean it probably daily.
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