Does slight overcrowding spread aggression.
- Thread starter camb1988
- Start date
I think it does help but IMO it is better to put in allot of "territories" so that they can rather keep themselves busy protecting there little space.
camb1988;4418743; said:
It is called Target fish.......Or Dithers..........Examples are any type of Tatra.......I use COnvict cichlids.......A breeding pair will spawn once or twice a month, creatring fry creates target fish.........To answer your question, yes, I have used small schooling fish to lower the aggression levels between the larger fish......
importracer;4420119; said:
x2 . . . I think two of the better means of controlling aggression are
a) having some dithers, maybe some small schooling fish . . . my Siamese Algae Eaters do double-duty by eating algae and providing a distraction (and I don't keep large piscivores that would eat them!)
b) territories . . . my tanks are divided up by plants and driftwood to create all kinds of safe-zones where fish can hide if necessary
Thanks all. Has been really helpful. Have quite a few territories in there already and i agree that it isnt a good way to keep fish. I think i might go with 3 juveniles for now (gold saum, Jack Dempsey and firemouth) Will these fish be fine when i get the 100 gal or is that to small for them?
Kalen;4419735; said:
That's a valid defense for physical violence in GA.
peathenster said:
He didn't mention what kind of fish he was keeping in the 55g. I gave out general tips based on my experience that have worked for me. And as it turns out, he says he wants to do a JD, GT, and a firemouth (all juvies) in the 55g until he upgrades to the 100g. I think now knowing his stocking plans, my advice is perfect.
In fact, I did almost exactly the same thing. I started a JD, GT, female loiselli and a sub juvie Oscar in a 55g to grow them out so they would be big enough to add to a bigger tank with bigger residents. There was also a really small synodontis in there. There would be no problem using driftwood and plants to create three seperate "zones" or "territories" or "houses" in the 55g for these three juvies. None of the fishes the OP has mentioned are known for their explosive growth. So I think he'd be fine in the 55g for almost a year.
That said, bigger is always better. And upgrading sooner is always better. I'm a big believer in "buy the tank first, then the fish". Life often gets in the way of the best laid plans.
Here's that old 55g. As you can see, you don't have to go overboard with the decorations. You just have to break up the line of sight and give each fish a little place of refuge. You also may or may not notice the overfiltration. There's an Emperor 400, Emperor 280 and two Penguin 1140 powerheads in that 55g. Be prepared in case you can't move as soon as you'd like...
And since we're on the subject, this is the JD. It was an awesome female. She went to my buddy ncnutcase for his EBJD line breeding program...
terd ferguson;4420480; said:
I think that was the decision after the OP read all the posts.
IME there are two ways to reduce aggression: 1) give them enough room or set up territories for them like what you are so good at, and 2) give them no territory at all by overcrowding. The original question was about the latter - whether one can spread aggression in a 55g by overcrowding. I have made it quite clear that it would help keeping them from killing each other, but it's not the ideal way to keep fish.
Of course one can set up territory for three CA juvies and keep them happy in a 55g. That's solution #1 and not what the OP asked about in the first post. I'm quite happy that the OP decided against solution #2.
Some examples of seriously overstocked tanks. Once again, not what I would do, but it works for the sole purpose of keeping them alive.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=939525&postcount=91
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=745381&postcount=16
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=758459&postcount=55
A lot more in this thread http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59793
peathenster;4421169; said:
You and I agree. I didn't mean to insinuate differently. I'll go even further. Its my pholosophy that keeping the fishes happy will net you better results than depriving them of what they naturally want. That is, territorial fishes want territory to claim. I believe depriving territorial fishes of territory, whether overstocking or not, will lead to frustrated unhappy fishes. Frustrated unhappy fishes lead to nuisance aggression. Nuisance aggression leads to injuries and deaths.
In the first post, he didn't specify desired stocking or species, just "overstocking". Overstocking can mean different things to different people. One too many fish is one thing, while a tank crammed to the brim with fishes so they can barely move without bumping into one another is a different matter. I don't follow the cramming theory, although I won't judge anyone who does it while keeping their fishes healthy and water clean. I do obviously subscribe to the overstocking theory according to conventional wisdom.
Cramming a bare tank full of fishes may well work, but not in the right way. There's just no room for a proper attack. And they'd almost be doing the same thing I am. They're breaking up the line of sight, but with more fishes instead of decor. That's not how I want to do it. And this is just personal preference, but I think it takes away from what I love about fishkeeping. That is, creating a psuedo-natural environment that is beautiful where you can watch fishes display their natural behavior. Well, as natural as can be outside of the wild. Having said that, I have to admit I've seen a couple of examples of crammed tanks that were beautiful because of the sheer number and diversity of highly desirable, rare, awesome specimans in it.
We are artists in a way. We put fishes in tiny glass or plastic boxes on display. And just like art, some do it really well and some just miss the mark. That's not to say there's a concrete right and wrong way. So long as the fishes are properly cared for. What works for me may not work for someone else. My way is not the only way. The bottom line is its about the fishes. Keep them happy and they'll keep you happy.
