Don't get fired up, it's a theoretical question

[bigbadfish711]

Probably because organs grow according to hormonal triggers, meaning that even if the fish has stopped growing due to the small confines of its enclosure (the inability to use and build developing muscle, for instance, which tends to happen to koi put in shallow ponds), there's really nothing (if the water is kept clean, that is) to stop the organs from growing.

And even if they do stop growing, stunting changes the physiological makeup of internal organs, mainly the liver, which does result in premature death.

And as to our choice regarding whether or not we keep fish as pets: despite the fact that fish have kilometers of water in the wild, they don't need all that water every waking moment. They may move through it to other places, of course, but they don't actually make any use of the water a kilometer away when they are at one specific point. Fish that are properly cared for are actually better off in our tanks than in the wild. Not only would they get adequate housing (that is, a tank large enough to allow them to grow past their wild counterparts), but they also get lots of food for which they don't have to make any effort, much more protection from predators, and they lack the parasites their wild counterparts will always suffer from. Sure, the power could go out, but in the wild they could also experience an unseasonal cold snap or heat wave or algae bloom. There aren't really any extra risks, while certain other risks are removed.

I am still lost here. I have done a short search for studies done on fish stunting, but have not found much. I did find a few people talking about fish releasing a "growth hormone". And when there is too much or that in the water the fish stops growing. Now none of these people say any thing about the fish's organs continuing to grow. I would think if a fish picks up that growth hormone and its brain tell its body to stop growing then it would tell the fish's entire body and not forget about its organs.

I am not saying that this does not happen nor am I say that this does. I am just tryin got find the facts.

Can any one give me a link or name of a book that out lines this in detail. Or give me a case study that proves either way this does or does not happen. I am really curious as to know more about this. Thank you

 

[jlnguyen74]

Probably because organs grow according to hormonal triggers, meaning that even if the fish has stopped growing due to the small confines of its enclosure (the inability to use and build developing muscle, for instance, which tends to happen to koi put in shallow ponds), there's really nothing (if the water is kept clean, that is) to stop the organs from growing.

And even if they do stop growing, stunting changes the physiological makeup of internal organs, mainly the liver, which does result in premature death.

And as to our choice regarding whether or not we keep fish as pets: despite the fact that fish have kilometers of water in the wild, they don't need all that water every waking moment. They may move through it to other places, of course, but they don't actually make any use of the water a kilometer away when they are at one specific point. Fish that are properly cared for are actually better off in our tanks than in the wild. Not only would they get adequate housing (that is, a tank large enough to allow them to grow past their wild counterparts), but they also get lots of food for which they don't have to make any effort, much more protection from predators, and they lack the parasites their wild counterparts will always suffer from. Sure, the power could go out, but in the wild they could also experience an unseasonal cold snap or heat wave or algae bloom. There aren't really any extra risks, while certain other risks are removed.

Which scenario do you think most likely happens first, fish stop growing from confine space or fish stop growing due to growth hormone present in water? Which aquarium is NOT a confine space to you? 10 gal? 100 gal? 1000 gal? 10,000 gal? 100,000 gal? etc... If an aquarium is not a confine space, why does it need a filtration system? Have you seen any adequate aquarium that doesn't have a filtration sytem?
Do you really think fish in the wild doesn't need all that water kilometer away? Actually, that's the only difference from nature and aquarium. Do you have any idea how water flows in nature? When water flows, it carries waste and all kind of stuff with it. Fish use all those water kilometer away to get rid of their waste. Do you really think fish has more protection from predator in an aquarium? Look in the mirror. You're fish no. 1 predator. That's why they're spook when you get near to the tank. Do you really think fish lacks parasite in home aquarium? If so, why would it's prohibited to release fish that was kept in home aquarium back into the wild or why would this site has a sub-forum dedicate to fish health issue? Do you really think fish in home aquarium has more food? Are you talking about the un-natural food that may cause digesting problem, constipation, swim bladder issue? Do you really think there aren't any extra risk? Have you seen any fish in nature that got suck into filter, got heater burnt, smash its head on lid or tank wall?

 

[thewaterboy]

This doesn't sound like a thoeretical question at all but one on reality as I believe that the majority of TSNs purchased in pet stores end up in tanks that are way too small for the species.

no dude. it's a theorectical question. i've already said 3-4 times i have not done this and have no plans to do this. i do not own a TSN. i never buy animals without intent to house them properly for life.

 

[Juxtaroberto]

Which scenario do you think most likely happens first, fish stop growing from confine space or fish stop growing due to growth hormone present in water? Which aquarium is NOT a confine space to you? 10 gal? 100 gal? 1000 gal? 10,000 gal? 100,000 gal? etc... If an aquarium is not a confine space, why does it need a filtration system? Have you seen any adequate aquarium that doesn't have a filtration sytem?
Do you really think fish in the wild doesn't need all that water kilometer away? Actually, that's the only difference from nature and aquarium. Do you have any idea how water flows in nature? When water flows, it carries waste and all kind of stuff with it. Fish use all those water kilometer away to get rid of their waste. Do you really think fish has more protection from predator in an aquarium? Look in the mirror. You're fish no. 1 predator. That's why they're spook when you get near to the tank. Do you really think fish lacks parasite in home aquarium? If so, why would it's prohibited to release fish that was kept in home aquarium back into the wild or why would this site has a sub-forum dedicate to fish health issue? Do you really think fish in home aquarium has more food? Are you talking about the un-natural food that may cause digesting problem, constipation, swim bladder issue? Do you really think there aren't any extra risk? Have you seen any fish in nature that got suck into filter, got heater burnt, smash its head on lid or tank wall?

Do we honestly even know that fish produce these hormones? I think it's been tested in loaches, but that's about it.

Our filtration systems are used to replicate this. We can provide what nature provides and much more.

But since fish keeping is so cruel, get rid of your fish.

 

[Juxtaroberto]

I am still lost here. I have done a short search for studies done on fish stunting, but have not found much. I did find a few people talking about fish releasing a "growth hormone". And when there is too much or that in the water the fish stops growing. Now none of these people say any thing about the fish's organs continuing to grow. I would think if a fish picks up that growth hormone and its brain tell its body to stop growing then it would tell the fish's entire body and not forget about its organs.

I am not saying that this does not happen nor am I say that this does. I am just tryin got find the facts.

Can any one give me a link or name of a book that out lines this in detail. Or give me a case study that proves either way this does or does not happen. I am really curious as to know more about this. Thank you

No, you're right. The scientific literature is sadly lacking when it comes to fish stunting. But we also don't know for sure that these fish produce these hormones that stop growth. Even if they did, our water changes would get rid of a lot of them.

Stunting has been extensively studied in humans, and all growth stops. However, human stunting most usually comes from malnutrition, or lack of food. Fish in small tanks get food. So, where is this energy going to go? Well, if the body stops growing, then it's either going to go to the growth of internal organs, or its going to accumulate as fat in the body, especially between the organs. Ultimately, it leads to the same thing: organs squished within the body, rendered inefficient, leading to premature death.

 

[jlnguyen74]

Do we honestly even know that fish produce these hormones? I think it's been tested in loaches, but that's about it.

Our filtration systems are used to replicate this. We can provide what nature provides and much more.

But since fish keeping is so cruel, get rid of your fish.

Do you really believe that we can provide what nature provides and much more?
I don't see fish keeping is so cruel, or I wouldn't be on this site. I would join PETA!

No, you're right. The scientific literature is sadly lacking when it comes to fish stunting. But we also don't know for sure that these fish produce these hormones that stop growth. Even if they did, our water changes would get rid of a lot of them.

Stunting has been extensively studied in humans, and all growth stops. However, human stunting most usually comes from malnutrition, or lack of food. Fish in small tanks get food. So, where is this energy going to go? Well, if the body stops growing, then it's either going to go to the growth of internal organs, or its going to accumulate as fat in the body, especially between the organs. Ultimately, it leads to the same thing: organs squished within the body, rendered inefficient, leading to premature death.

Quit when you're still ahead. If you don't know the answer, simply don't try to answer. Don't speculate and making assumption. You portrait fish feels and knows a lot. What make you thing that fish can't tell if their organ is growing bigger than their body, thus, tell the organ to stop growing? What make you think that the food we feed them give much nutrition? What make you think the fish consume more "energy" than they needed? What make you think the fish don't know when to stop eating? Have you heard of the term "overfeeding?" What make you think the fish can't just turn all those food they ate into waste right away? Have you seen a gold fish that craps at the same time it eats?