Double spotted Geophagus species

[mu_2176]

hi nemesis,
since you said you bought them as geophagus surinamensis,
i would possibly think they could be geophagus brachybranchus, being they come from the surinamensis complex and are often labeled as surinamensis.

I've seen many Geophagus Brachybranchus have double spots, so most likley they are it, but i am not sure. I will find some pics that have the double spot

 

[mu_2176]

These are geophagus brachybranchus with double lateral spots.

It is believed that double spots are low quality or inbred leading to the double spots.
When they get a bit bigger check for the black throats as that will most likely confirm they are brachybranchus


i will try to find more

and some more from this forum

 

[Nemesis]

Thanks. That's what I'm hoping they are. They are wild from Guyana. I'm sceptical that they are brachybranchus because you rarely ever see them here in the US. The largest of the bigger group has a black throat. Some say they are supposed to get a black pre opercular spot like dicrozoster, but from what I've read, and pictures viewed, they don't get this, correct?

 

[Scatocephalus]

Thanks. That's what I'm hoping they are. They are wild from Guyana. I'm sceptical that they are brachybranchus because you rarely ever see them here in the US. The largest of the bigger group has a black throat. Some say they are supposed to get a black pre opercular spot like dicrozoster, but from what I've read, and pictures viewed, they don't get this, correct?

Actually, brachybranchus do develop the black opercular spot. I didn't mention this fish as your pic did not show evidence of it.

Here's Joey's (R1_Ridah) monster brachy

In this pic you can see the black throat.

 

[Nemesis]

Pardon me for asking, but what exactly makes Joey's fish brachybranchus, and not winemilleri?

 

[mu_2176]

hhmm, i dont know much about identifying Geo's but i'd dont think that joey's fish is a brachybranchus. i've seen alot in real life (very common in australia) and i can say in my opinion that is not a brachybranchus correct me if i am wrong, or unless that specimen is wild caught or comes from an extremley good bloodline, but judging from the pics i've seen and information i suspect that joeys fish is actually Geophagus Proximus, the caudal fin pattern is more striped like the proximus while the brachy is dots which can form lines,
the proximus does also show the black throats.

but looking at the pics again i cant really say i am sure.

 

[Scatocephalus]

Proximus has a much larger body spot. Note how the lateral line equally runs through the spot.

Joey's fish's body spot barely touches the lateral line. Joey's fish is not proximus.

With that said, I suspect that there are multiple undescribed species of Geophagus that are exported from SA on a regular basis. The fact that most still come in as surinamensis or even jurapari is a testament as to how little the exporters know about what they are catching and shipping to us.

 

[Scatocephalus]

Pardon me for asking, but what exactly makes Joey's fish brachybranchus, and not winemilleri?

Winemilleri tends to be a redder fish and does not have the black throat.

That being said, after looking at several dozen pics of brachybranchus I tend to agree with mu_2176 that Joey's fish is not a brachy which leaves an intriguing question as to what it is.

 

[mu_2176]

could it be a new species LOL,

Geophagus dicrozoster comes to mind.

but who knows what it could be!