I guess I should have specified. a 30 gallon with a divider for the 2 and their eggs temporarily so i could keep everyone safe until I figured out what to do. HOWEVERThe eggs are gone, they've dug a big pit, and the dovii still won't leave the spot. They either have wrigglers, or they ate the eggs. In either case, there has been literally no aggression by the dovii or jag, though they do chase the others away from their spot. Honestly, I'm not worried anymore. I'm giving up the dovii, much to my dismay, so no further hybridization occurs. I'm taking about basically all of the fish except the festae, jag, and clown loaches and i'm going to try for an umbee.*all you high and mighty 125g tanks are too small for an umbee people*: you are absolutely, positively right. but they aren't too small for a 3-4 inch umbee, and I have a few definite options for rehoming if need be, and hospital tanks which i've never had to use. I'm an ethical vegan, and an active advocate for animal rights laws. Trust me, I care for my fish. Also, my co-workers are often very surprised to learn that I have no problems with aggression when they see what's in my tank. But this is a talk for another time, so in short: I realize the umbee thing is iffy, and I don't need to be told that a 125 is not big enough for life. But I want to at least start her out here. In my experience, aggression is always over-stated, and properly handled fish are calm fish.
Dovii and Managuensis have spawned......
- Thread starter darwinvsjesus
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*by rehoming if need be I mean if the umbee gets picked on/picks on [by] anyone in the tank. I do not intend to house an umbee in a community setting for life, nor do I intend to house an umbee in a 125 for more than a year/
yeah. All this aggression stuff is highly exaggerated. Are these fish aggressive? yes, they are. they are strong, very powerful, and very intelligent. None of my fish attack each other. Breeding dovii/jag in a 125 with a trimac, festae, gt, etc. No fighting whatsoever.
I once had to let go of a salvini who killed a JD, someone I worked with put her up for sale in a tank with a butti. the butti absolutely decimated the salvini. She survived. She's still at the store, but she literally has no color, she buries herself in the back corner. She was attacked a year ago by the butti. The fact is, these fish can be traumatized and it's permanent. When I see videos of aggressive 'dovii', I always also see a fish with no place to retreat to, and an owner taunting the fish. There's a video of a dovii posted in the 'most aggressive ca/sa cichlid thread' video. The dovii in that tank is not angry, he's afraid for his life. He probably realizes fully that he's trapped, and when that mother****er starts jabbing the net into the tank, the dovii flips. Of course this fish is violent and won't tolerate tankmates. I wouldn't either. And I believe when this happens to fish it permanently changes them.
I bet you I can put an umbee in this tank with my festae, jaguar, dovii, trimac, etc and there will be NO fighting. [i'm taking the trimac out, ill be upgrading the tank in a few months, but these fish aren't crowded, they've plenty of room to swim openly/hide]. There will be no fighting with this umbee, and in two years, when my dovii, jag, umbee are living together in peace in a larger tank, people will ask 'how do you do it? there's no aggression!" and I'll say: 'It's easy. I never terrorized my fish in front of a camera. I am a keeper, a companion. Not a monster'.
sorry for the rant, but I just saw that vid of the dovii, and I see alot of vids with umbees like this on youtube. it makes me so mad. These fish might be mean, territorial, etc. But they probably have fewer serious problems when they aren't living in constant fear because the owner or whoever is antagonizing them for amusement. it's not funny.
I once had to let go of a salvini who killed a JD, someone I worked with put her up for sale in a tank with a butti. the butti absolutely decimated the salvini. She survived. She's still at the store, but she literally has no color, she buries herself in the back corner. She was attacked a year ago by the butti. The fact is, these fish can be traumatized and it's permanent. When I see videos of aggressive 'dovii', I always also see a fish with no place to retreat to, and an owner taunting the fish. There's a video of a dovii posted in the 'most aggressive ca/sa cichlid thread' video. The dovii in that tank is not angry, he's afraid for his life. He probably realizes fully that he's trapped, and when that mother****er starts jabbing the net into the tank, the dovii flips. Of course this fish is violent and won't tolerate tankmates. I wouldn't either. And I believe when this happens to fish it permanently changes them.
I bet you I can put an umbee in this tank with my festae, jaguar, dovii, trimac, etc and there will be NO fighting. [i'm taking the trimac out, ill be upgrading the tank in a few months, but these fish aren't crowded, they've plenty of room to swim openly/hide]. There will be no fighting with this umbee, and in two years, when my dovii, jag, umbee are living together in peace in a larger tank, people will ask 'how do you do it? there's no aggression!" and I'll say: 'It's easy. I never terrorized my fish in front of a camera. I am a keeper, a companion. Not a monster'.
sorry for the rant, but I just saw that vid of the dovii, and I see alot of vids with umbees like this on youtube. it makes me so mad. These fish might be mean, territorial, etc. But they probably have fewer serious problems when they aren't living in constant fear because the owner or whoever is antagonizing them for amusement. it's not funny.
Your stocking probably works because you're keeping so many large fish in a relatively small tank. It's a concept shared with the "Japanese Domestic Market" (JDM) style tanks and is not new.
SO the eggs are gone, they are still defending the area. Did they eat the eggs or do I have wrigglers I can't see?? I've never raised fish before, never bred anything. What do I look for?
and regarding JDM:
I disagree. I think it works because I treat my fish with respect. Every aggressive dovii, jag, umbee video I've ever seen involves a fish in a bare tank, with no cover whatsoever, and a keeper who is taunting and terrorizing the fish. These fish understand that they are trapped. They are afraid. They attack as a preemptive measure. If you treat your cichlids with respect, a lot of the aggression goes away. Are there NO aggressive dovii, jag, umbee, etc? Of course there are. it varies from fish to fish. But I have not gotten lucky with each and every fish I have purchased. It's a matter of raising them in a calm environment there they feel safe, and are treated gently. Do my fish flare at eachother? yes. But I've never had to take direct action to prevent fatality or even severe injury. By the way, I took out most of the fish today. All that's left is the jag, festae, gt and clown loaches.. Like I said before. The umbee will go in, and assimilate fine, and there will be no problems. I will inevitably have problems at some point, with someone. But for the most part, I wholeheartedly believe that I will not have these issues.
oh, and he's a wild-caught male. I'll post a video when I get it all sorted out. and no, I'm not so arrogant as to think it can't go wrong. I am fully prepared for that situation, but I just don't worry that it will happen. I will absolutely stay home and watch them for the first couple days.
EDIT: the umbee may be too small for the 125 for now. I can't remember exactly, but I think he was somewhere around the 3 inch mark. I put my dovii in at 4 inches and he had a little trouble at first. I'll have to wait and see.
Likewise, I want to reiterate that I am not arrogant. I just firmly believe that there are ways to circumvent aggression, and one of them is gentleness.
If there are any umbee owners out there who want to PM me with some advice, that would be awesome. Remember the 125 is a temporary setup for this one. He will have his own 180 at the very least in some months down the road. I am aiming for a 300, but that would mean ousting other tanks. I'd like to have a nice cichlid display, and, if necessary, a nice big tank for the umbee as he breaks the 12'' mark.
and regarding JDM:
I disagree. I think it works because I treat my fish with respect. Every aggressive dovii, jag, umbee video I've ever seen involves a fish in a bare tank, with no cover whatsoever, and a keeper who is taunting and terrorizing the fish. These fish understand that they are trapped. They are afraid. They attack as a preemptive measure. If you treat your cichlids with respect, a lot of the aggression goes away. Are there NO aggressive dovii, jag, umbee, etc? Of course there are. it varies from fish to fish. But I have not gotten lucky with each and every fish I have purchased. It's a matter of raising them in a calm environment there they feel safe, and are treated gently. Do my fish flare at eachother? yes. But I've never had to take direct action to prevent fatality or even severe injury. By the way, I took out most of the fish today. All that's left is the jag, festae, gt and clown loaches.. Like I said before. The umbee will go in, and assimilate fine, and there will be no problems. I will inevitably have problems at some point, with someone. But for the most part, I wholeheartedly believe that I will not have these issues.
oh, and he's a wild-caught male. I'll post a video when I get it all sorted out. and no, I'm not so arrogant as to think it can't go wrong. I am fully prepared for that situation, but I just don't worry that it will happen. I will absolutely stay home and watch them for the first couple days.
EDIT: the umbee may be too small for the 125 for now. I can't remember exactly, but I think he was somewhere around the 3 inch mark. I put my dovii in at 4 inches and he had a little trouble at first. I'll have to wait and see.
Likewise, I want to reiterate that I am not arrogant. I just firmly believe that there are ways to circumvent aggression, and one of them is gentleness.
If there are any umbee owners out there who want to PM me with some advice, that would be awesome. Remember the 125 is a temporary setup for this one. He will have his own 180 at the very least in some months down the road. I am aiming for a 300, but that would mean ousting other tanks. I'd like to have a nice cichlid display, and, if necessary, a nice big tank for the umbee as he breaks the 12'' mark.
