Drip system

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M

Maxime

Gambusia
MFK Member
Oct 7, 2011
141
7
16
Canada eh!
Alright, now that my new 1300 indoor pond is fully setup and the filter is cycled. I need to look into making a drip system. It didn't cross my mind while building. I need to find a better way to handle water changes. ROFL

My main concern is the overflow. I don't want to have to drill the plywood wall and make a hole in the liner. So I need to find a way to build an overflow over the 6 inch wide wall of the tank. I've seen pics of some king of overflow with a plastic tube that creates a vacuum I guess?

Any suggestions?

Here's the tank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsS5k314PY
 
David R said:
Look up Jcardona1's auto water change system. Rather than a constant drip it uses a pump on a timer to remove the old water and a float valve to top it back up. You could set something like that up without needing to drill the tank.
Click to expand...

I agree.

I have a drip system on all my tanks and love it but it's the drill a hole method. Water flows in, at lets say 1 GPH, and water overflows out the hole on the other side of the tank and drains out to the yard. Super easy and no moving parts but you need to drill. If the water flow stops no big deal if it increases for some reason it still drains out to the yard. Not much chance of an overflow in my living room.

Other methods:

1) To avoid drilling you can set up a syphon method: but it's possible for those to clog and you have the potential to over flow the tank. You can easily set up a float valve to cut off the incoming water but more moving parts.

2) Set up a submersible pump on a timer to pump out water and then a float valve to refill water. Again moving parts can fail but both of these are reasonable solutions to your problem.

But #1 & 2 are still better than the old syphon refill method.

Awesome pond by the way! :)
 
Maxime said:
Alright, now that my new 1300 indoor pond is fully setup and the filter is cycled. I need to look into making a drip system. It didn't cross my mind while building. I need to find a better way to handle water changes. ROFL

My main concern is the overflow. I don't want to have to drill the plywood wall and make a hole in the liner. So I need to find a way to build an overflow over the 6 inch wide wall of the tank. I've seen pics of some king of overflow with a plastic tube that creates a vacuum I guess?

Any suggestions?

Here's the tank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsS5k314PY
Click to expand...

Drips are great to help with water quality but an auto water change system would do a better job for what you're wanting. With a drip system you're not getting the full benefits of a water change. What I mean by that is say you drip 50 gpd, your moving that volume of water out of course but its not all old water you're moving. With an auto wc system you're taking out ONLY old water and replacing with new. The other way you're taking out only a percentage of the old water along with new at a constant rate. Drips are a great addition but not as efficient as water changes at reducing DO's and PM.


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JwHiser13 said:
Drips are great to help with water quality but an auto water change system would do a better job for what you're wanting. With a drip system you're not getting the full benefits of a water change. What I mean by that is say you drip 50 gpd, your moving that volume of water out of course but its not all old water you're moving. With an auto wc system you're taking out ONLY old water and replacing with new. The other way you're taking out only a percentage of the old water along with new at a constant rate. Drips are a great addition but not as efficient as water changes at reducing DO's and PM.
Click to expand...

This is true. Drip systems do not completely change the water. This is why the drip system is better. Remember the goal is clean water. If you can have clean water by never doing a water change, never having your fish panic swim into the glass, go into shock with temp changes and so on, then you would do it.
The drip system is easy to control also. Summer months when my tank temps reach 85 and my fish are eating more, my nitrates start to rise. (I check weekly) Then I slightly increase the drip. As the temps drop in the winter I can throttle back my drip to save water. Now my system is so stable I only check every other month.
My fish never know the water has been changed.
 
Egon said:
This is true. Drip systems do not completely change the water. This is why the drip system is better. Remember the goal is clean water. If you can have clean water by never doing a water change, never having your fish panic swim into the glass, go into shock with temp changes and so on, then you would do it.
The drip system is easy to control also. Summer months when my tank temps reach 85 and my fish are eating more, my nitrates start to rise. (I check weekly) Then I slightly increase the drip. As the temps drop in the winter I can throttle back my drip to save water. Now my system is so stable I only check every other month.
My fish never know the water has been changed.
Click to expand...

I see your point but how can you calculate what you're taking out when old and new water is draining from your drain at the same time, and how is it possible then to stay ahead of the rate of production in your system if you cannot guarantee how much of each of the aforementioned is draining?


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JwHiser13 said:
I see your point but how can you calculate what you're taking out when old and new water is draining from your drain at the same time, and how is it possible then to stay ahead of the rate of production in your system if you cannot guarantee how much of each of the aforementioned is draining?


Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
Click to expand...

You can calculate the amount of replacement based upon the assumption that what you add is pure water and what you remove is an average of what is already in the tank. This works as long as the entry port is sufficiently far from the exit port, as long as there are moderate amounts of water agitation and as long as the items being removed are soluble in water (as nitrates are.)

The following site does this type of calculation, but you can do the same on a spreadsheet.

http://www.theaquatools.com/water-changes-calculator

You are correct that there is no guarantee if the system is not setup properly or if portions of the system have little to no agitation. In those cases, the actual results can be unpredictable. E.g., tanks that add water to one end of the tank and remove it at the other end, (or in the sump) with ample agitation in between are likely to be more efficient at this process.

There are caveats of course:

1) drip systems will have higher overall average nitrate levels than manually changed systems assuming that the amount of water changed is the total same amount. As you indicated: adding 500 gallons in a drip system is not as effective as adding 500 gallons in a manual system because you are removing part of the "new" water. To get the same overall average nitrate levels, drip systems need to remove more water in total for any given period of time. (e.g., 100% of the water in a drip system versus 70% in a manual system.)

2) drip systems will have less variance than manual water change systems by virtue of changing minute amounts continuously. Manual change systems will have higher peaks and lower valleys than drip systems and as a result even though drip systems can have higher overall average nitrates, they can at the same time have lower peak nitrates. The most 'efficient' manual change systems will wait the longest to change water, which ironically is the least healthy choice for the fish.


So there are some tradeoffs independent of the time/cost/effort of doing one method or the other. Fish are injured at higher peaks and do better with more stable water. On the other hand, higher overall average nitrates may prove slowly debilitating over time. There is the added cost of using more water, although IME that is a trivial cost in the FW hobby.
 
Drstrangelove said:
You can calculate the amount of replacement based upon the assumption that what you add is pure water and what you remove is an average of what is already in the tank. This works as long as the entry port is sufficiently far from the exit port, as long as there are moderate amounts of water agitation and as long as the items being removed are soluble in water (as nitrates are.)

The following site does this type of calculation, but you can do the same on a spreadsheet.

http://www.theaquatools.com/water-changes-calculator

You are correct that there is no guarantee if the system is not setup properly or if portions of the system have little to no agitation. In those cases, the actual results can be unpredictable. E.g., tanks that add water to one end of the tank and remove it at the other end, (or in the sump) with ample agitation in between are likely to be more efficient at this process.

There are caveats of course:

1) drip systems will have higher overall average nitrate levels than manually changed systems assuming that the amount of water changed is the total same amount. As you indicated: adding 500 gallons in a drip system is not as effective as adding 500 gallons in a manual system because you are removing part of the "new" water. To get the same overall average nitrate levels, drip systems need to remove more water in total for any given period of time. (e.g., 100% of the water in a drip system versus 70% in a manual system.)

2) drip systems will have less variance than manual water change systems by virtue of changing minute amounts continuously. Manual change systems will have higher peaks and lower valleys than drip systems and as a result even though drip systems can have higher overall average nitrates, they can at the same time have lower peak nitrates. The most 'efficient' manual change systems will wait the longest to change water, which ironically is the least healthy choice for the fish.


So there are some tradeoffs independent of the time/cost/effort of doing one method or the other. Fish are injured at higher peaks and do better with more stable water. On the other hand, higher overall average nitrates may prove slowly debilitating over time. There is the added cost of using more water, although IME that is a trivial cost in the FW hobby.
Click to expand...

I really enjoyed that response! That's a very cool and useful calculator as well!


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You can do a manually change when ever you want on a drip system. If my tank crashes for some reason I pull out the old Python and do an old school water change :)

So far I never had to do that, but I keep my Python water change system coiled up in a closet just incase....

Good discussion.
 
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