Drop eye, to the extreme

[Miguel]

Allmost all Silvers kept in tanks get at least one DE, some get in both, as i have seen in pics.

I see where Brian is coming from, with the trauma injury, but i do not think it is the main cause, far from it.

There are far more skittish aros than Silvers, they bang as much, if not more, on the glass, and they get no DE, or they get it very less often.

I believe it has to with being kept in tanks and looking down, coupled with some ingredient in food that accumulates fatty deposits behind the eye and hence the eye is pushed over by the fat.
But the main factor is, imo, looking down.

In around 30 years of aro keeping ( have kept them all, except africans from small to very big ) i have never had or seen a DE in aros beyond silvers, nor have i had silvers with both DE's.

 

[monsterkeeper87]

Allmost all Silvers kept in tanks get at least one DE, some get in both, as i have seen in pics.

I see where Brian is coming from, with the trauma injury, but i do not think it is the main cause, far from it.

There are far more skittish aros than Silvers, they bang as much, if not more, on the glass, and they get no DE, or they get it very less often.

I believe it has to with being kept in tanks and looking down, coupled with some ingredient in food that accumulates fatty deposits behind the eye and hence the eye is pushed over by the fat.
But the main factor is, imo, looking down.

In around 30 years of aro keeping ( have kept them all, except africans from small to very big ) i have never had or seen a DE in aros beyond silvers, nor have i had silvers with both DE's.

+1 these are my thoughts on it also.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Bderick67]

Allmost all Silvers kept in tanks get at least one DE, some get in both, as i have seen in pics.

I see where Brian is coming from, with the trauma injury, but i do not think it is the main cause, far from it.

There are far more skittish aros than Silvers, they bang as much, if not more, on the glass, and they get no DE, or they get it very less often.

I believe it has to with being kept in tanks and looking down, coupled with some ingredient in food that accumulates fatty deposits behind the eye and hence the eye is pushed over by the fat.
But the main factor is, imo, looking down.

In around 30 years of aro keeping ( have kept them all, except africans from small to very big ) i have never had or seen a DE in aros beyond silvers, nor have i had silvers with both DE's.

So you discount head trauma because other arowana bang their head as much, but then believe looking down is the cause. So silver aro look down more then any other arowana? IMO no other factor that people believe cause DE can explain the "instant or "near instant" development of DE. No way DE is just going to happen overnight unless triggered by a certain incedent.

Far from alone with the "head trauma" theory. This is a post from a thread 3 years ago, there have been many more such testimonials since then.

Very well could be a coincidence. With one of my two silvers it happen twice, to each eye on separate occasions. Never did it happen in 30 minutes but it did happen within hours.

First time the aro was 16" long and had no DE. While transferring to a larger tank the arowana did experience severe head trauma while being caught. Later after in the new tank the DE was apparent in the right eye. A few months later then aro, about 21", freaked out during a tank cleaning. It hit the top corner brace a couple of times very violently. That night before turning the lights out, DE had developed in the left eye.

There have been numerous people that have reported the same. There have been numerous others to report that the DE appeared or worsened almost instantly. Here are a few examples

Originally Posted by johnptc;771937;

imo which is not scientific at this point i believe it to be caused by one of two reasons.......

1) fatty tissue buildup behind the eye...pushing it out
2) physical shock/injury to the head........

john

Originally Posted by likestofish;2745058;

my silver got de within a day of hitting the lid of his tank rely hard.

Originally Posted by DustMite;2743436;

I think it's from putting a monkey fish used to jumping in the wild in a aquarium.I have seen 5 out of 8 Arowanas I have raised in the past smash my lids and instantly have DE. I may be wrong but I have a 20'' that has no drop eye but she is the most calm aro I have owned and has never hit my lids that I know of.

Originally Posted by TwoBrownDogs;2798824;

I just got back from a long weekend to find both of my Arows have there left eye like this? They have had eye drop but this looks like there eye is going to fall out. They will not eat and are ackting like they are going crazy. Please help if you can..

Originally Posted by jphillips2020;2745998;

Yeah I pretty much agree mine had no drop eye then one day hit the lid really hard and ended up on the floor somehow probably HOB filter hole. Found him mostly dry and laying on his left side he has had drop eye on his left side ever since.

Originally Posted by demjor19;2367864;

Mine had no DE up until it was about 15"...then it had a few bad jumps into the hood and the DE showed up on the injured side of the head within a day. I have always suspected DE to come from head trauma.

Also...mine has not had another bad head injury since and the DE has remained stable (no worse/better).

Just my $0.02.

Originally Posted by Cypher;2690175;

The theory of genetics makes more sense to me, as it explains why Asians and Black arowanas seem less prone to DE than silvers.

However Ive had a situation where ive moved my silver (8") from a 75 to a 180 gallon. He became very restless in the bucket during acclimation, bumping into every part of the bucket. By the time i moved him into the 180, the right eye was slightly dropped. Possibly due to head trauma?

So I guess both theories have their own validity.

Originally Posted by iLoveHebe;2690266;

my uncles HBRTG jumped out when it was 10 inch it banged its eye like 5 times by jumping on the floor 1 side had DE

Originally Posted by christ4paul;2656325;

when i got my silver aro it was bumping into the tank and going ape sh*t and after a few hours one of his eyes dropped so im with you on the head trauma thing.

Originally Posted by headbanger_jib;2579802;

my jar has been living in a 180g for almost an year, since he was just 6"+
he got drop eye while he was just 8.5" he had this tendency to bang at the tank walls
used to scare me a lot as i could hear the thud from quite a distance
and one fine day he got DE but he still is a cool fish

Originally Posted by ettfettbranamn;2824098;

Right this is the deal. I got three aros, and all have de, (on the left side) so I know what de looks like, but I came home today and noticed that my smallest aro 17"ish has a lot more de than she used to have just yesterday.

 

[Bderick67]

Interesting.. Never heard that before..
But all drop eye tend to occur in bigger aros and these usually are more calm and tend to hit less on the glass. Wouldn't this too mean that asian and australian aros would get drop eye?

Go to arofanatics you can see lots of asians with DE, no where near as many as silvers though. With jardini it is much rarer. Bigger aro means more power equals more damage. For those that suggest that other aro are just as skittish(not my belief) why are the largest amount of dried up aro on the floor, silver arowana? Silver aro are more of a top water swimmer then the other arowana and spook much easier. This combination leads to the silver aro being much more apt to jump. When they jump they either smash their head or end up on the floor.

Another aro not mentioned the black aro, very rare to see with DE. I only know of two, one on youtube and one at the Shedd aquarium in Chicago(though have never see a pic of this one). As far as my two backs go, they are vary cautious and far from skittsh, rarely have I seen them get spooked(compared to my silvers) I can only assume this would be the case with most blacks. Also you don't hear of many blacks dried up on the floor.

That would be really interesting, never knew trauma could affect drop eye.
It would be really interesting to have a biologist or an expert talk a little more about it.

I'll show you my Aro's drop-eye later

There is at least one, I'll dig up the info on him later as I need to get to work now.

Edit: The boss is watching but here ya go http://microcosmaqx.typepad.com/jay_hemdal/2009/03/eyedroop-in-arowanas-and-arapaima-gigas.html

 

[Bderick67]

This is actually a pretty good read, though it got rather heated and had to be cleaned up a few time. The Dreaded DE thread from March of '09. Alot of the links and pictures no longer work but a good discussion none the less.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...e-Dreaded-DE&p=2881693&viewfull=1#post2881693

Another good read with pics

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...e-Dreaded-DE&p=2881693&viewfull=1#post2881693

 

[Miguel]

Hey Brian, not pretending to start a heated discussion.

Never said that trauma may no the involved. But all othere aros are as prone to trauma as silvers.

I have allways kept blacks, find them more skittish than silvers ( my experience ) and never have i seen one live with DE, nor have i sen it in aussies and asians, all of which i have kept and keep, as you know.

And all of them bang their heads.

Perhaps the fact that more silvers jump ( asians jump as much in my experience ) is that yoou see one hunderd silvers per 1 of the others, in broad terms...

 

[Bderick67]

No, but a discussion without heat would be great

I just have a hard time seeing your point of view that one condition which in your opinion is experienced by all others is but

i do not think it is the main cause, far from it.

and then other conditions that is definetly experience by all species of arowana you endorse,

I believe it has to with being kept in tanks and looking down, coupled with some ingredient in food that accumulates fatty deposits behind the eye and hence the eye is pushed over by the fat.
But the main factor is, imo, looking down.

Again none of your endorsed conditions can account for the instant or almost insant cases od DE that so many have experienced seeing or why DE is more prevalent in silver aros.

 

[Miguel]

I am fully aware that i do not convince you. I hardly convince myself, since no one knows precisely, we have been discussing this for years on end what is the cause ofthe far superior incidence of DE in silvers.

All sspecies kept exactly, by everybody, in the same conditions. Yet 90% silvers get it, 5% of all others get.
Cannot be trauma, only, or the maind cause.

It is ( allmost tank raised silvers ) specific. Is it related to something we miss in their food?

Something must be related to tank keeping and food...

I have caught around 20 silves in the amazon and seen dozens of others caught. None had DE.

 

[Bderick67]

I have caught around 20 silves in the amazon and seen dozens of others caught. None had DE.

You lucky dog, would love to do that someday. Least you some what support my belief of wild arowana with DE, I don't believe that an arowana in the wild would survive with DE. It would effect their binocular vision, making it near impossible to hunt. Possible that in the wild arowana can recover from DE, this would also kinda fall in line with peoples claims of DE recovery in ponds. Though I haven't seen much in ways of documented proof of this.

 

[Miguel]

Neither have I. Never seen a recovery, or even heard of one.
But somebody may chime in. Our climate is unsuitable for aros in a pond, so i do not know for sure.