dryloc with fiberglass (480gal tank build)

[cvermeulen]

lol. This is no myth and it is not something new with polyester resins. That is why it is not used in timber boat construction.
Yes Gelcoats are made of resin but Gelcoats differ from resins in that they contain additives, pigment and usually less filler to give the most durable surface possible and a better water barrier.

For a source to back that up. See link.http://www.zahnisers.com/repair/blister/blister1.htm

Your article, while containing some interesting material, stinks of quackery. They have one source cited, written in 1987. They go so far as to blame osmosis for the problem (do they know how osmosis works?). They also quite clearly state that gelcoat is permeable, which contradicts what you have said (did you read the article?). Many fiberglass boats have a lifespan of 30+ years, and even if this kind of damage occurs, it is usually cosmetic. Aquatic Ecosystems make FRP ponds, as do many other manufacturers. I and several other MFKers (including AnythingFish with his giant outdoor monstertank) have made polyester sealed tanks and decorations without issue. It might interest you to know also that acrylic is water permeable - should we stop using that to make tanks as well? Please stop telling people Polyester is unsafe and perpetuating this MYTH.

 

[cvermeulen]

A Direct Quote, please forgive the spelling mistakes, belying their inscrutable academic credentials: "It appears to be effecting all conventionally built polyester fiberglass bottoms that are continually immersed. It is our experience that all boats built with conventional polyester resin and gelkote, show signs of hydrolysis deterioration of the outer laminates after 5 to 10 years of immersion."

I'll take 5 to 10 years of life out of a plywood tank, thanks. Not to mention, we're not even talking about an aquarium here but a Monitor enclosure.

 

[Bsixxx]

You do not need to "mix" Drylok with any sort of resin. Use one or the other. The only situation where I would recommend using both (but not mixing) is perhaps epoxy, polyester or vinyl ester resin for the floor and first foot or two of the cage walls. This would give the most moisture resistance where damp substrate will sit and the area of the walls right above the substrate where the most scratching would occur. Drylok could then but used for the rest of the cage walls to save money and time on application.

For a a typical Monitor cage one really does not need to use fiberglass mesh, cloth, roving or mat.

If you want to use it for peace of mind then make sure to select one of the more open mesh fabrics to use along with Drylok. The fiberglass mesh that goes over foam before applying synthetic stucco is the type of fabric I'm talking about. These are designed to be used with cement based finishes like Drylok.

If you choose epoxy, polyester or vinyl ester resin then you would use standard fiberglass cloth, mat or roving. If you go this route keep in mind that even though mat is cheaper than cloth, for example, it takes more resin to wet it out which makes them cost about the same.

Again, Drylok and the three resin types I mentioned have been used in Monitor enclosures without any sort of reinforcing fiberglass fabric. Adding them is not necessary per se but they will add strength to corners and joints. If you're going to use an inexpensive polyester like you pick up at an auto supply store then I think some lightweight cloth is a good idea as these polyesters can be a bit brittle without reinforcement.

Drylok won't be as durable and scratch resistant as any sort of resin but it is very inexpensive, easy to apply and super easy to repair.

If I were building a plywood monitor enclosure I would probably rule out stand polyester and instead either use Drylok, vinyl ester or epoxy resin.

If the species in question needed a lot of moisture I would use a resin. If the species came from a more arid environment it would be hard to look past Drylok for its combination of low cost, ease of application and in particular ease and quickness of repair.

I have one plywood cage sealed with Drylok but it only houses a Moluccan Python which certainly is not capable of scratching. Still, I am impressed with the durability. I'm not super crazy about the textured finish.

A couple of years ago I took a scrap piece of sheet metal and painted it with Drylok and let it cure for several days. I have flexed that piece of metal into a semi circle hundreds of times and have clamped it in a vice and scratched at the finish with the corner of a chisel. Long story short, it is remarkably durable stuff for a 1k waterborne.

so your saying I could get away with using just dryloc?
I like that, it like 130 bucks for a 5 gal bucket, so not too bad..
But the fiberglass seems like it would be stronger and more secure in the long run..

I would also like to point out, that this is basically going to be a fish tank, inside of the cage.. it's a seperate box, that i am building and then securing inside of the enclosure.. If that helps a little more.

So maybe If i can find it use the fiberglass, and mix in that epoxy resin.

 

[CJH]

so your saying I could get away with using just dryloc?
I like that, it like 130 bucks for a 5 gal bucket, so not too bad..
But the fiberglass seems like it would be stronger and more secure in the long run..

I would also like to point out, that this is basically going to be a fish tank, inside of the cage.. it's a seperate box, that i am building and then securing inside of the enclosure.. If that helps a little more.

So maybe If i can find it use the fiberglass, and mix in that epoxy resin.

I'm not sure that I completely follow your design. You could absolutely get away with Drylok for the plywood parts of the structure that are exposed to just the substrate. But if you mean you're building a tank that will hold water then I would use something else, at least for the areas below the water line.

Fiberglass wetted out with any sort of resin is going to be stronger and more durable than Drylok. No doubt about that.

Even just plain resin applied to the bare walls without fiberglass will be stronger and more durable than Drylok.

Maybe explain your design a bit better and include a basic sketch in MS Paint.

 

[Bsixxx]

I'm not sure that I completely follow your design. You could absolutely get away with Drylok for the plywood parts of the structure that are exposed to just the substrate. But if you mean you're building a tank that will hold water then I would use something else, at least for the areas below the water line.

Fiberglass wetted out with any sort of resin is going to be stronger and more durable than Drylok. No doubt about that.

Even just plain resin applied to the bare walls without fiberglass will be stronger and more durable than Drylok.

Maybe explain your design a bit better and include a basic sketch in MS Paint.

like my title said, 480 gallon tank, inside of monitor enclosure..
building a 6x4x30" tank inside of the enclosure, like a soak tub, waterbowl, but with fish and viewing windows and filtration..

basically need the best/ cheapest method of water proofing it and sealing it for durability..

 

[spiff]

Drylock= Doomed to failure.

 

[CJH]

like my title said, 480 gallon tank, inside of monitor enclosure..
building a 6x4x30" tank inside of the enclosure, like a soak tub, waterbowl, but with fish and viewing windows and filtration..

basically need the best/ cheapest method of water proofing it and sealing it for durability..

Okay, got it. I would not use Drylok for constant underwater submersion. I would also not use any of the single component elastomeric or asphalt emulsions that get discussed around here due to the ability of a Monitor to tear them or scratch through them. Same with liners.

I would use polyester or vinyl ester resin along with fiberglass cloth or roving.

If this will be constructed indoors or in an area where offgassing solvents will be a problem then I would use an epoxy resin along with cloth or roving.

 

[Bsixxx]

Okay, got it. I would not use Drylok for constant underwater submersion. I would also not use any of the single component elastomeric or asphalt emulsions that get discussed around here due to the ability of a Monitor to tear them or scratch through them. Same with liners.

I would use polyester or vinyl ester resin along with fiberglass cloth or roving.

If this will be constructed indoors or in an area where offgassing solvents will be a problem then I would use an epoxy resin along with cloth or roving.

what does that mean? My vocabulary isn't that extended yet.. LOL

I so far know that i will need that matting or woven roving stuff with the fiberglass for the corners and supports. But that is it so far.
I founf the fiberglass, matting and roving stuff at home depot.
asked some guys that work there were i can find the color resin, and they had no idea what i was talking about... Also i wanted to use "rhino liner" but they told me that is was discontinued..
anything else i could use for mousture resistance in the enclosure? Not the tank part, but the actual enclosure part? Like where the substrate will be?

 

[CJH]

what does that mean? My vocabulary isn't that extended yet.. LOL

I so far know that i will need that matting or woven roving stuff with the fiberglass for the corners and supports. But that is it so far.
I founf the fiberglass, matting and roving stuff at home depot.
asked some guys that work there were i can find the color resin, and they had no idea what i was talking about... Also i wanted to use "rhino liner" but they told me that is was discontinued..
anything else i could use for mousture resistance in the enclosure? Not the tank part, but the actual enclosure part? Like where the substrate will be?

Basically any of the ester resins will have a much stronger and lingering chemical smell than epoxy resin.

I would not be shopping at Home Depot for a project like this. I would either visit local fabricators or go mail order. One place I like for resin and fiberglass supplies is US Composites:

http://www.shopmaninc.com/index.html

If you're already going to be using a resin and cloth method for the water holding part of this enclosure then I would go ahead and use it for the floor and few foot or two of the cage walls.

You can then use it for the rest of the walls and ceiling or you can use Drylok.

I recommend fiberglassing the floor and part of the cage walls first. This will allow you to get the hang of working with resin and cloth on a more forgiving part of the cage. When you move onto the tank you'll likely do a better job and be less likely to make mistakes.

Do I understand you've never tackled a project like this? I would at least consider starting with something simple that you can either add onto or put aside for another species before moving onto bigger and better.

Obviously any Varanid enclosure that will itself contain a 440 gallon water tank is going to be a very massive undertaking. Too many people have leaks when working with fiberglass for the first time. It's something you really need to get the hang of.

 

[Bsixxx]

Basically any of the ester resins will have a much stronger and lingering chemical smell than epoxy resin.

I would not be shopping at Home Depot for a project like this. I would either visit local fabricators or go mail order. One place I like for resin and fiberglass supplies is US Composites:

http://www.shopmaninc.com/index.html

If you're already going to be using a resin and cloth method for the water holding part of this enclosure then I would go ahead and use it for the floor and few foot or two of the cage walls.

You can then use it for the rest of the walls and ceiling or you can use Drylok.

I recommend fiberglassing the floor and part of the cage walls first. This will allow you to get the hang of working with resin and cloth on a more forgiving part of the cage. When you move onto the tank you'll likely do a better job and be less likely to make mistakes.

Do I understand you've never tackled a project like this? I would at least consider starting with something simple that you can either add onto or put aside for another species before moving onto bigger and better.

Obviously any Varanid enclosure that will itself contain a 440 gallon water tank is going to be a very massive undertaking. Too many people have leaks when working with fiberglass for the first time. It's something you really need to get the hang of.

Yeah i know, i'm starting to get worried about all of this.. I don't want leaks, but overall i don't want any chemical smells, or to spend a couple hundred dollars for it not to work anyway..

i think i might just build a 50 gal tank and try it out first..
450+ gallons is a lot of water no matter how you fill it up